Bopha, THANK YOU !!! Your the first person on this forum who's taken the time to explain in detail. Although I admire Chandler's work I'm always cautious of them because western (and eastern) intellectuals always have a hidden agenda. Usually trying to justify and or absolve/minimize the atrocities/mistakes their political masters made. Sort of a damage control exercise. Your analysis explains why PolPot attacked Vietnamese villages and brutally tortured the poor and the old and why the Chinese could of cared less as they saw the VC as "Ungrateful benefactors" in Chandlers' book. To your first question "Does it initially change smething taken or programmed?" No it doesn't change anything. But as a foreigner I want to know PRECISELY who's responsible for what and when. I agree with you, my country did nothing concrete to stop the atrocities in Cambodia. Canada is a lap dog of the U.S. To give Cambodia's only seat at the UN to Ieang Sary/KR is a bloody outrage. Hun Sen was right in telling the ECCC if you want more than the 5 brothers to stand trial then start with the UN (U.S., France, China, Canada etc). Of course he'll never admit to Vietnams' role. Personally I would like to see the remaining brothers tried and executed by their heads smashed with a hammer while having an adrenaline drip going to keep them alive so they may endure more pain. Then we can go after the hundreds of high ranking cadre living in Pailin/Anlong Veng and other areas. ARE THERE ANY KR WAR CRIMINALS LIVING IN THE US AND CANADA? Canada has just tried a Rawandan high ranking cadre for war crimes who's living in Canada. This sets a precedent as usually we send them back to their country of origin. I pray someday we can try those responsible for the Chinese, Russian and Armenian genocides. Thanx again. Regards, Lenny G
From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: 05-16 09 Survivor Stories : PART I KHMER ROUGE BUT WHERE IS THE PART II? Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:25:00 +0200 If vietcong or polpot changed their pole of patronage or partnership does it change something initially taken or already programmed specially for Khmer rouge? Vietcong is a movement solidly founded and supported by china before being handled to URSS. The Khmer rouge and the yuon Vietcong win over USA and over Cambodia, it is not because yuon Vietcong are strong or because of URSS but because there are people like yourself who supported and endured its system and enjoy its crime. And if it is a choice, and a determination for Vietcong, it is not the case of khmer rouge polpot which is a movement totally dependent of viet resources. It is not polpot who can decide what to do or change a program planed by Vietcong but submit to it if not, his power kindly offered by yuons vietcong will be threatened. In one of his interview with a journalist before his dead, polpot said as follow” Viets did not want to keep me in power but someone else” What this mean? It is evident, all polpot asked from Vietcong is keeping him in power to work for viet federation but Vietcong have another program which is not what polpot expected from. Sacrifice in the hell fire by his old masters after being used and soiled, polpot has no other choice than to search someone else support to save his head and to revenge against his old patrons, the vietcong. Pol pot cant ask support from URSS because Vietcong is dearest son of URSS and not interest in the person of polpot at all. So polpot has no choice than adhere to China believing that China is at his side which is totally derisory. It is not a smart decision from polpot but a hopeless option because polpot know that his life and his power are being fired by his own masters. Believing that his patrons viets were going to suppress him to be replaced by someone else drown polpot to lead political purge against his own arm brothers. What polpot forget is, if he wants to eliminate all yuons and yuon elements from his regime, polpot needs to kill all Khmer rouge or Khmer rouge cadres and it will evidently lead to the suppression of himself and his regime because Khmer rouge movement is a viet movement, composed of viets and viet elements. That’s too evident to neglect or forget. Since china has founded Dai viet and even Chinese seem to have certain disdain toward Vietcong, china always used it as political tool to push out foreign invading and influence and together they get rid and suppress forever Khmer supremacy in South East Asia. Viets always got Chinese support to fight against Champs then against Khmer as well other foreigners. Now China and Vietcong seem to get along together and share their preys of the collective chase. China can profit and exploit natural resources in the countries sacked and invaded by Vietcong and even inside the land of Vietcong. May be Chinese intelligence is too difficult for people to seize. Regarding Chendly writing or those of his colleges, I’m at your opinion. I think all his notes concerning certain historical events are truth but only his opinions, conclusion and the way he tried to mass certain evident criminals from the scene of crime that are arbitral, ill and criminal which not make him a respectful intellectual but an malicious individual, a partner of an industry of crime, a criminal. Bopha Angkor From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Survivor Stories : PART I KHMER ROUGE BUT WHERE IS THE PART II? Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 23:25:29 -0500 Bopha. At the time of the Americans being kicked out by the Vietnamese didn't the Chinese view the Vietnamese as ungrateful benefactors? My timelines may be wrong but weren't the Vietnamese under the patronage of Russia? The KR/ Viet war of '79-'99? was cosidered to be a "proxy war" between China and Russia. Back in the 50's when the French were kicked out I'm guessing you're right about China's influence in Vietnam. When precisely did Vietnam change benefactors from China to russia? Regards, Lenny From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Survivor Stories : PART I KHMER ROUGE BUT WHERE IS THE PART II? Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 22:43:10 +0200 Do your home works; make sure that it was vietcong and not China that sent French and US, their tails between legs, wet pants from Indochina? Didn't vietcong used China as sanctuaries and political and military training camp to attack French and USA. However difference from Cambodia, Vietcong sanctuaries in China is a Chinese politically willingness and strategy while Cambodia is being violated and abused by Vietcongs against Khmer people wills, beside Sihanouk and his few Vietcong experts. But of course official version wanted it is vietcong who bear victory panel, just not to offense supper China. Like vietcong that bear Phnom Penh 17 April panel on Khmer rouge. Just wondering it is vietcongs who used China or inversely. Comparing to Nord Korea, Vietcong sound much smarter or luckiest or may be something else play at its favor. Although, it is not give vietcong rights to be ignored or get out from the crimes committed to other people around including against Khmer people. Negation of vietcong crime is also a crime. ----- Original Message ----- From: Len Graceffo To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 9:31 AM Subject: RE: Survivor Stories : PART I KHMER ROUGE BUT WHERE IS THE PART II? Bury. What was the results of China invadind Vietnam? How many Vietnamese were killed? Isn't it true that General Jiap sent the Chinese home with their tails between their legs? Whether you like them or not, the Vietnamese are tough. They sent the Americans and the French to a degree of humiliating defeat. The Khmer Rouge as tough and ruthless as they were/are could not stand up to them. China is now the new super power that everyone must worry about. Britain and the U.S. will use India,Pakistan,Thailand to persuade Vietnam (who hates China)and Cambodia to corner China. Mark my words, Britain and the U.S. and probably the rest of N.A.T.O. will invade Burma (a Chinese ally) to keep China at bay. Remember that Many rouge Islamic states (Syria, Iran and Sudan) get their weapons from China while America and England deal to Thailand, Pakistan India etc. I really hope I'm wrong but I don't see anything changing for Cambodia anytime soon. The western superpowers will not want to upset Vietnam at this point which is why they don't care what Cambodia does with its "donor dollars" The undecidable factor here is Russia. You just might see an alliance between China and Russia. Sooner or later Bury, everybody does business with evrybody. Regards, Lenny G From: [email protected] To: [email protected] CC: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: RE: Survivor Stories : PART I KHMER ROUGE BUT WHERE IS THE PART II? Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 15:32:20 -0700 PART II . CAMBODIA IS OCCUPIED BY VIETNAM COMMUNISTS 1979-2009 MR Justin C. Sok PLEASE WRITE THIS STORY TOO. BRIEF HISTORY ABOUT CHINA-VIETNAM WAR IN 1979. It was about Vietnam invasion of Cambodia in 1979, that the Chinese went to punish the Vietnamese through a short invasion in North Vietnam. Here are the facts: 1. April 1975 The Vietnamese occupied Koh Tral and other Cambodian islands in the gulf of Siam. 2. May 4, 1975 Khmer Rouge attacked Vietnamese islands. Jan. 4, 1976 Serious fighting erupts on Tral Island or Phu Quoc ( Ships carried red flags with pictures of Angkor Wat temple and white flags are shot at by people on Tral Island. ) 3.Dec. 25, 1978 Invasion of Cambodia. Some 100,000 Vietnamese with 20,000 KUFNS troops, under the direction of Gen. Van Tien Dung, launch an invasion of Cambodia. 4. Jan. 7, 1979 Vietnamese and KUFNS troops capture Phnom Penh.and on Jan. 8, 1979,The Kampuchean People's Revolutionary Council (KPRC), head by Heng Samrin was set up as a provisional govt. to run the country. On Jan. 10, 1979 The People's Republic of Kampuchea (PRK) was established to replace the Khmer Rouge's Democratic Kampuchea. 5. CHINA WENT TO WAR . Feb. 17, 1979, "Teaching a lesson". Some 170,000 Chinese troops with 700 warplanes, and 250-300 tanks launched an invasion of Vietnam to punish it for invading of Cambodia. Nov. 14, 1979 The UN General Assembly adopts a resolution A/RES/34/22 calling for the immediate withdrawal of all foreign troops from Cambodia. The vote is 91-21 with 29 abstentions. Feb. 27, 1982 UN Commission on Human Rights meeting in Geneva adopted a resolution condemning Vietnam’s occupation of Cambodia as a violation of Cambodian human rights. The vote was 28 in favor, 8 against, and 5 abstentions. Oct. 21, 1986 The UN General Assembly adopted a resolution /RES/41/6, by vote of 116-21 with 13 abstentions, calling for a withdrawal of Vietnamese forces from Cambodia. TO ALL KHMER , IT'S TIME TO REVOLT AND QUICK OUT NORODOM SIHAMONI OUT OF THE KHEMARIN PALACE. Here are the reasons Let us describe this thief . HOR NAM HONG deputy PM or HUN SEN'S BIG THIEF . ACCORDING TO THIS FORMULA : THIS BOOK : " GIAI PHONG " by T Terzani. It describes a Vietnamese as THIEF, A LIAR, A KILLER, A DECEIVER , a sleeper ...... SEE THE PICTURE OF KING SIHAMONI, FORMER KING SIHANOUK, QUEEN MONIQUE SIHANOUK AND THEIR VIETNAMESE MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS , HOR NAM HONG. IT'S A TREASON . Hor Namhong,(VIETNAMESE , HIDING BEHIND THE LABEL KHMER ROUGE), RESPOSNSIBLE FOR 800 KHMER ELITE DEAD AT BENG TRABEK SCHOOL ) ministre des Affaires étrangères © Pring Samrang HOR NAM HONG , A VIETNAMESE ,APPOINTED AS FOREIGN MINISTER OF CAMBODIA TO NEGOTIATE AND TALK ON BEHALF OF THE KHMER PEOPLE HERE. VIETNAMESE MEN AND WOMEN SENT ABROAD AS FAKE "CAMBODIAN " AMBASSADORS BY HOR NAM HONG ,TO REPRESENT KING SIHAMONI, FORMER KING SIHANOUK , QUEEN MONIQUE SIHANOUK CAMBODIA , AND THE CAMBODIAN PEOPLE. it's treason by King Sihamoni. I AM POSTING A SHORT LIST OF THE VIETNAMESE 1.H.E. Mrs. You Ay ( VIETNAMESE ) Ambassador Kingdom of Thailand 2.H.E. Mr. KHIEU THAVIKA( VIETNAMESE ) Ambassador Federation of Russia 3.H.E.Mrs. SIN Serey ( VIETNAMESE ) AmbassadorRepublic of Singapore 4.H.E. Mr. HOR Nambora( VIETNAMESE ) Ambassador United Kingdom 5.H.E. Mr. Hem Saem,( VIETNAMESE ) Ambassador Belgium 6.H.E.Mr Hem Heng U.S.A ( VIETNAMESE ) (Washington) Ambassador Royal Embassy of Cambodia 4530 16th Street N.W. Washington, D.C 20011, U.S.A. 7.H.E. Mr. UCH Kiman( VIETNAMESE ) AmbassadorRepublic of France (Residence) Spain, Italy, Portugal, Greece 8.H.E. Mr. LIM Samkol( VIETNAMESE ) Ambassador Republic of Korea(Seoul) IT SHOWS HERE THAT CAMBODIA IS TOTALLY VIETNAMIZED , AND BECOMING THE REAL VIETNAMESE COLONY IN VIOLATION OF THE 10 UN RESOLUTIONS, Diplomatic Missions of The Kingdom of Cambodia Abroad RUN BY HOR NAM HONG, THE VIETNAMESE, ARE FILLED WITH VIETNAMESE MEN/WOMEN . THE KINGDOM OF CAMBODIA IS A 100% VIETNAMESE COLONY UNDER KING SIHAMONI Please see attachment. Thanks, Ly Diep Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage limits. Check it out. </HTML<BR </html </html </HTML<BR _________________________________________________________________ One at a time or all at once? Get updates from your friends in one place. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9660827 --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cambodia Discussion (CAMDISC) - www.cambodia.org" group. This is an unmoderated forum. Please refrain from using foul language. Thank you for your understanding. Peace among us and in Cambodia. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/camdisc Learn more - http://www.cambodia.org -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
