It seems to me that the user interface, not unlike acceptance tests, is somewhat of a customer's responsibility. Even if it is not the customer's role (as customers are usually not qualified for it) to implement the UI, it is their job to define it. And there's a difference betweeen story tests which define the behavior of the application /system and story tests that define the way the UI should behave. Hence there is some logic in having UI experts do the UI design (and note that UI here includes desktop, web, palmtop, command line, shell, WAP, SOAP) or whatever other UI you might think of.
Having the programmers make UI decision is, almost by definition the wrong thing as most programmers don't think like customers. Amir Kolsky XP& Software >-----Original Message----- >From: Ron Jeffries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 1:11 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [XP] Should someone else be writing the GUI. > > >Ken, and William: > >On Monday, October 25, 2004, at 12:27:33 AM, William Pietri wrote: > >> On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 21:15, Ken Boucher wrote: >>> I'm sorry, this isn't parsing for me. Are you saying that >because you >>> aren't a usability exepert but you are a developer that usability >>> experts can't be developers and developers can't become usability >>> experts? > >> Does that matter? Developers can become customers and customers >> developers, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep the roles >> separate. > >Long ago, Kent Beck said something that has stuck with me. As >I recall it was in a discussion of why there were only two >roles in XP, Customer and Programmer. He said that he >considered the fact that there were even two roles to be a >flaw, but that he could see no way to get rid of it. > >Looking over my long coaching history, this is a very high >frequency event: > > A team tells me "We're having a problem with X", where X >sounds like some > planning or technical problem. I ask them "Tell me about how >you do X". > > They describe how Joe does this part of X and Jane does that >part of X. > They describe some odd interface between Joe and Jane, such >as that Joe > writes things down for Jane to do, or Jane uses Joe's code >... whatever. > > "Have Jane and Joe talk to each other," I say. > >(It might even be more frequent than "Do you have a test for that?") > >Now then, since you and I both expect problems on the >interfaces, we call our attention to the one "inevitable" >interface in XP, the customer/programmer interface. And we >see, quelle surprise, problems. And we see that the more the >developers really understand the domain, the more smoothly >things go, the more the customers really understand what the >programmers are doing, the more smoothly things go. They never >go perfectly, but they go better. > >And that, Ken, is what you are saying with one side of your mouth: > >> A lot of our programmers have business knowledge and we find that >> knowledge very important. In fact I'd say that teaming programmers >> with no smalltalk experience but lots of domain experience with >> experienced smalltalkers with no domain experience has >produced great results. > >What I'm saying above predicts that result and suggests that >by talking more to each other, that situation can come about. > >But then, Ken, you say: > >> If I'm going to do GUI work I need more experience than doing part >> time GUI work is going to provide. I also need to be in a >GUI mindset. >> I need to think about things differently. There's a lot of things I >> need to keep in mind when doing GUI work, and if I approach GUI work >> with a model frame of mind I find I'm not thinking about all >the right >> things. > >And then you suggest a separate GUI team, and then William and >I suggest that there will be problems on that interface. >Interestingly, K&W, the two of you have almost switched sides: > > Ken suggests a split between GUI and Model, and William (and >I) recommend > against it; > > Ken suggests less of a split between Customer (domain) and >Programmer, > and William reminds us to keep the roles separate. > >Now I'm suggesting to all of us that perhaps the Whole Team / >Sitting Together notion is at the core of what makes things >work well, and that we all have reason to know it. > >Now what shall we do about these GUI persons and model persons? > >Ron Jeffries >www.XProgramming.com >I was smarter before I donated my brain to science. >I didn't know they meant NOW. > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
