2008/12/20 Bru Peckett <[email protected]>

>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> > On Behalf Of Steve Haywood
> > Sent: 20 December 2008 17:28
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [canals-list] Re: News from 19 century
> >
> > 2008/12/20 Bru Peckett <[email protected]>
> >
> > >
> > > In fact, Ireland as a nation state did not exist when the English (or
> > to be
> > > more precise the Normans) first conquered the country in the 1100's.
> > >
> >
> > I'll leave the concept of the nation state to others, but I'd take
> > issue
> > that the Angevins (which is the term you're looking for - not Normans!)
>
> The Angevin kings are often included by historians in a Norman dynasty
> stretching from William the Conqueror through to Richard II (although other
> learned authors consider the Norman dynasty to have ended with Stephen or
> even his predecessor Henry I - the latter being the second of the only two
> Kings in a direct male line of descent from William I).
>
> However, they are also sometimes considered to be the first House in the
> Plantagenet dynasty (covering the houses of Angevin, Plantagenet, Lancaster
> and York)!
>
> To make it even more confusing, not all historians include the houses of
> Lancaster and York in the Plantagenet dynasty <sigh>
>
> > ever
> > 'conquered' Ireland. What they did was made a series of short term
> > accomodations with whatever locals would deal with them.
>
> Well, by 1172 Henry II, having landed a large body of "Norman", Welsh and
> Flemish soldiers between 1169 and 1171, received the submission of
> virtually
> all the Irish kings. If that's not a conquest I don't know what is! Mind
> you, it was a short lived and somewhat hollow victory since, having
> submitted to Henry as their overlord, most of the Irish kings carried on
> exactly as they always had!
>
> >John was a
> > much
> > better king that the pro-Rome chroniclers would have us believe. His
> > Irish
> > campaigns were pants though.
>
> True and true. He was a good administrator but a lousy soldier! As a king,
> he was a lot more interested in his Kingdom than his brother Richard had
> ever been.
>
> Bru
>
>
> ------------------------------------
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