2008/12/20 Bru Peckett <[email protected]> > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > > On Behalf Of Steve Haywood > > Sent: 20 December 2008 17:28 > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [canals-list] Re: News from 19 century > > > > 2008/12/20 Bru Peckett <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > In fact, Ireland as a nation state did not exist when the English (or > > to be > > > more precise the Normans) first conquered the country in the 1100's. > > > > > > > I'll leave the concept of the nation state to others, but I'd take > > issue > > that the Angevins (which is the term you're looking for - not Normans!) > > The Angevin kings are often included by historians in a Norman dynasty > stretching from William the Conqueror through to Richard II (although other > learned authors consider the Norman dynasty to have ended with Stephen or > even his predecessor Henry I - the latter being the second of the only two > Kings in a direct male line of descent from William I). > > However, they are also sometimes considered to be the first House in the > Plantagenet dynasty (covering the houses of Angevin, Plantagenet, Lancaster > and York)! > > To make it even more confusing, not all historians include the houses of > Lancaster and York in the Plantagenet dynasty <sigh> > > > ever > > 'conquered' Ireland. What they did was made a series of short term > > accomodations with whatever locals would deal with them. > > Well, by 1172 Henry II, having landed a large body of "Norman", Welsh and > Flemish soldiers between 1169 and 1171, received the submission of > virtually > all the Irish kings. If that's not a conquest I don't know what is! Mind > you, it was a short lived and somewhat hollow victory since, having > submitted to Henry as their overlord, most of the Irish kings carried on > exactly as they always had! > > >John was a > > much > > better king that the pro-Rome chroniclers would have us believe. His > > Irish > > campaigns were pants though. > > True and true. He was a good administrator but a lousy soldier! As a king, > he was a lot more interested in his Kingdom than his brother Richard had > ever been. > > Bru > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
