So if there is no tracking how would facilities (like WCF) know when a
component is no longer needed and have its resources released

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Ayende Rahien <[email protected]> wrote:

> _having_ to release means that we are putting the onus on the developer to
> do the right thing.I think that this is a mistake to do so by default.
> Especially since we generally don't need this in .Net
> If we do need it, we can activate the feature, and
> assume responsibility for its operation.- Show quoted text -
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Craig Neuwirt <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> yes, but generally just the root object and the component burden does the
>> rest which is very important service
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Ayende Rahien <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> The problem is that this means that you have to release.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Craig Neuwirt <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dispose is just one type of decomission.  There are other that get added
>>>> dynamically by facilities which need to be applied when components are
>>>> released.  I think this behavior is important by default
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Ayende Rahien <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It seems that a lot of people are surprised by this behavior, I think
>>>>> it would be wiser to no track components by default.Thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 8:54 AM, kurtharriger 
>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't understand why this isn't the default setting either.  IMHO,
>>>>>> Transient objects should not be tracked by default.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As many several have noticed the issues arising tracking transient
>>>>>> objects for dispose is greater then the risk of not calling dispose at
>>>>>> all (and unless the object holds unmanaged resources, dispose is not
>>>>>> all that necessary anyway).  A disposable component that *must be
>>>>>> disposed* should also implement a finalizer and that doesn't change by
>>>>>> using a container since there is no guarantee dispose will be called
>>>>>> on container either. Since release accepts the object to dispose as a
>>>>>> parameter there isn't any reason to track it, if object is not tracked
>>>>>> then assume it is transient and call dispose if implemented.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Kurt
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 3, 4:57 pm, Andrew Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> > Yea, I was worried about negative effects of this also. You don't
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> > something for nothing, right? The only mention I've seen so far is a
>>>>>> comment
>>>>>> > from hammett in the another post to this group ("ViewComponent
>>>>>> memory
>>>>>> > leak"):
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > "The side effects is that you might have disposable components that
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> > not being disposed by the container"
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > In my case I know I don't have any disposable components involved,
>>>>>> so after
>>>>>> > some proper testing, I'll be applying the 'fix' to my server
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 11:45 PM, Stefan Sedich <
>>>>>> [email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > Excellent glad I could help. But I would look into releasing your
>>>>>> > > objects properly, not sure maybe someone can comment on negative
>>>>>> > > impacts of using NoTrack policy.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > Cheers
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 9:43 AM, Andrew Smith <[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> > > > just changed the policy and re-ran a local stress test.
>>>>>> Immediate
>>>>>> > > > improvement. Previous test ended with memory usage of ~200MB,
>>>>>> this time
>>>>>> > > > round 70MB
>>>>>> > > > thanks again!
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > > On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 11:37 PM, Stefan Sedich <
>>>>>> [email protected]>
>>>>>> > > > wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > >> No problems,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > >> Something that caught me too, I knew a few people that were not
>>>>>> aware
>>>>>> > > >> and they had never stress tested their apps or realised it was
>>>>>> > > >> resetting (dangerous). I am glad I profile my stuff before
>>>>>> putting it
>>>>>> > > >> anywhere near production. I guess releasing is the way proper
>>>>>> way to
>>>>>> > > >> handle things, but I have been naughty and just used
>>>>>> NoTracking.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > >> Cheers
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > >> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Andrew Smith <
>>>>>> [email protected]>
>>>>>> > > >> wrote:
>>>>>> > > >> > Hi Stefan,
>>>>>> > > >> >  you know as soon as I posted that, of course I came across
>>>>>> details on
>>>>>> > > >> > this
>>>>>> > > >> > issue. In fact your very blog post. In all the time I've used
>>>>>> castle,
>>>>>> > > I
>>>>>> > > >> > never realised I was expected to explicitly release a
>>>>>> transient
>>>>>> > > >> > component.
>>>>>> > > >> > By the sounds of it, I'm sure that will be the cause as I'm
>>>>>> using
>>>>>> > > >> > windsor
>>>>>> > > >> > integration heavily and can easily repro the issue with a
>>>>>> local stress
>>>>>> > > >> > test.
>>>>>> > > >> >  Thanks for the info
>>>>>> > > >> > Cheers,
>>>>>> > > >> > Andrew
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > >> > On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Stefan Sedich <
>>>>>> > > [email protected]>
>>>>>> > > >> > wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > >> >> Andrew,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > >> >> I have built a few simmilar sounding shop fronts, with
>>>>>> medium load
>>>>>> > > and
>>>>>> > > >> >> have not had issues with memory leaks with the app pools
>>>>>> running
>>>>>> > > solid
>>>>>> > > >> >> until their nightly reset.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > >> >> If you hit your site with a web stress testing tool do you
>>>>>> see the
>>>>>> > > >> >> memory continue to climb until app pool reset? If this is
>>>>>> the case it
>>>>>> > > >> >> is possible you have a memory leak.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > >> >> I would suggest getting a tool like ANTS profiler to see if
>>>>>> you can
>>>>>> > > >> >> track down any memory leaks in your application and then go
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> > > >> >> there. I would say from what I have seen in my apps ~200MB
>>>>>> seems
>>>>>> > > >> >> reasonable depending on what it is doing.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > >> >> In my last project I had similar issues you describe. In my
>>>>>> case I
>>>>>> > > was
>>>>>> > > >> >> using Windsor and not releasing my components from the
>>>>>> container when
>>>>>> > > >> >> I was done with them. In my case I decided to not release my
>>>>>> objects
>>>>>> > > >> >> and use the NoTrackingReleasePolicy instead, as this was
>>>>>> fine for my
>>>>>> > > >> >> needs and removed the leak that I had.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > >> >> I have blogged about this here:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> http://weblogs.asp.net/stefansedich/archive/2008/11/05/avoid-memory-l.
>>>>>> ..
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > >> >> Cheers
>>>>>> > > >> >> Stefan
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > >> >> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Andrew <[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > >> >> > I've just launched an e-commerce website based on Monorail
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> > > using
>>>>>> > > >> >> > ActiveRecord. It's a replacement of a previous PHP
>>>>>> solution and we
>>>>>> > > >> >> > have on average about 20 - 30 concurrent users at any
>>>>>> given time.
>>>>>> > > I'm
>>>>>> > > >> >> > also running an admin site in the same application pool.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > >> >> >  My issue is to do with memory usage. I'm running on a 1GB
>>>>>> VPS box
>>>>>> > > >> >> > (also hosting a SQL Server DB on same machine). I've
>>>>>> limited SQL
>>>>>> > > >> >> > Server to 200MB and my IIS6 worker process to 400MB.
>>>>>> However, even
>>>>>> > > >> >> > pre-
>>>>>> > > >> >> > release when testing with 1 or 2 users the memory usage
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> > > easily
>>>>>> > > >> >> > sit around the 300MB mark. Now with the real load, I'm
>>>>>> seeing the
>>>>>> > > >> >> > application pool recycle approx every 40 mins (normally
>>>>>> should only
>>>>>> > > >> >> > recycle at 3am). I'm using the ASP.Net state service so
>>>>>> session
>>>>>> > > >> >> > details are preserved but still, I'm concerned
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > >> >> >  As I said, it's an e-commerce site so there's the usual
>>>>>> shop
>>>>>> > > stuff:
>>>>>> > > >> >> > lots of nice pics, searches, checkout and a bit of 2nd
>>>>>> level
>>>>>> > > caching
>>>>>> > > >> >> > for things such as categories (max 200 categories),
>>>>>> countries,
>>>>>> > > rates
>>>>>> > > >> >> > etc. Really not that much is cached and mem usage was high
>>>>>> before
>>>>>> > > we
>>>>>> > > >> >> > fully optimised the site. I've been careful to have the
>>>>>> SQL
>>>>>> > > profiler
>>>>>> > > >> >> > beside me as we were testing the app, so I'm confident
>>>>>> that I don't
>>>>>> > > >> >> > have N+1s all over the place. Oh, and I'm using standard
>>>>>> > > session-per-
>>>>>> > > >> >> > request model using Ayende's UOW stuff
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > >> >> >  I guess what I'm asking is: Is that level of memory usage
>>>>>> expected
>>>>>> > > >> >> > for that type of site? I would love to hear back from
>>>>>> anyone who
>>>>>> > > has
>>>>>> > > >> >> > launched a similar type of site.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > >> >> >  I did see a previous post about this, but they are
>>>>>> talking around
>>>>>> > > >> >> > the
>>>>>> > > >> >> > 200MB mark, so I'm wondering what on earth I'm doing
>>>>>> wrong!
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > >> >> > There is the option of shelling out more cash and go to a
>>>>>> 2GB VPS
>>>>>> > > >> >> > box,
>>>>>> > > >> >> > but I'd rather not have to....
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > >> >> > cheers
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > >> >> --
>>>>>> > > >> >> Stefan Sedich
>>>>>> > > >> >> Software Developer
>>>>>> > > >> >>http://weblogs.asp.net/stefansedich
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > >> --
>>>>>> > > >> Stefan Sedich
>>>>>> > > >> Software Developer
>>>>>> > > >>http://weblogs.asp.net/stefansedich
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > --
>>>>>> > > Stefan Sedich
>>>>>> > > Software Developer
>>>>>> > >http://weblogs.asp.net/stefansedich
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> - Show quoted text -
>
> >
>

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