I'm not sure misuse is a good argument to change this behavior.

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Ayende Rahien <[email protected]> wrote:
> The problem is that people don't call release.
> Then they have a memory leak because of this behavior.
>
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 12:07 PM, hammett <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> As much as any disposable type expects to be disposed. As Craig
>> pointed out, this should happen on the bootstraping code, not
>> throughout the application. I dont see the problem. But I can be
>> convinced otherwise.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> hammett
>> http://hammett.castleproject.org/
>> Sent from: Vancouver British Columbia Canada.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Ayende Rahien <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > _having_ to release means that we are putting the onus on the developer
>> > to
>> > do the right thing.
>> > I think that this is a mistake to do so by default. Especially since we
>> > generally don't need this in .Net
>> > If we do need it, we can activate the feature, and
>> > assume responsibility for
>> > its operation.
>> >
>> > On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Craig Neuwirt <[email protected]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> yes, but generally just the root object and the component burden does
>> >> the
>> >> rest which is very important service
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Ayende Rahien <[email protected]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> The problem is that this means that you have to release.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Craig Neuwirt <[email protected]>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Dispose is just one type of decomission.  There are other that get
>> >>>> added
>> >>>> dynamically by facilities which need to be applied
>> >>>> when components are
>> >>>> released.  I think this behavior is important by default
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Ayende Rahien <[email protected]>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> It seems that a lot of people are surprised by this behavior, I
>> >>>>> think
>> >>>>> it would be wiser to no track components by default.
>> >>>>> Thoughts?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 8:54 AM, kurtharriger
>> >>>>> <[email protected]>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I don't understand why this isn't the default setting either.
>> >>>>>>  IMHO,
>> >>>>>> Transient objects should not be tracked by default.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> As many several have noticed the issues arising tracking transient
>> >>>>>> objects for dispose is greater then the risk of not calling dispose
>> >>>>>> at
>> >>>>>> all (and unless the object holds unmanaged resources, dispose is
>> >>>>>> not
>> >>>>>> all that necessary anyway).  A disposable component that *must be
>> >>>>>> disposed* should also implement a finalizer and that doesn't change
>> >>>>>> by
>> >>>>>> using a container since there is no guarantee dispose will be
>> >>>>>> called
>> >>>>>> on container either. Since release accepts the object to dispose as
>> >>>>>> a
>> >>>>>> parameter there isn't any reason to track it, if object is not
>> >>>>>> tracked
>> >>>>>> then assume it is transient and call dispose if implemented.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> - Kurt
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Mar 3, 4:57 pm, Andrew Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>>>>> > Yea, I was worried about negative effects of this also. You don't
>> >>>>>> > get
>> >>>>>> > something for nothing, right? The only mention I've seen so far
>> >>>>>> > is a
>> >>>>>> > comment
>> >>>>>> > from hammett in the another post to this group ("ViewComponent
>> >>>>>> > memory
>> >>>>>> > leak"):
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > "The side effects is that you might have disposable components
>> >>>>>> > that
>> >>>>>> > are
>> >>>>>> > not being disposed by the container"
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > In my case I know I don't have any disposable components
>> >>>>>> > involved,
>> >>>>>> > so after
>> >>>>>> > some proper testing, I'll be applying the 'fix' to my server
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 11:45 PM, Stefan Sedich
>> >>>>>> > <[email protected]>wrote:
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > Excellent glad I could help. But I would look into releasing
>> >>>>>> > > your
>> >>>>>> > > objects properly, not sure maybe someone can comment on
>> >>>>>> > > negative
>> >>>>>> > > impacts of using NoTrack policy.
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > Cheers
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 9:43 AM, Andrew Smith
>> >>>>>> > > <[email protected]>
>> >>>>>> > > wrote:
>> >>>>>> > > > just changed the policy and re-ran a local stress test.
>> >>>>>> > > > Immediate
>> >>>>>> > > > improvement. Previous test ended with memory usage of ~200MB,
>> >>>>>> > > > this time
>> >>>>>> > > > round 70MB
>> >>>>>> > > > thanks again!
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > > On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 11:37 PM, Stefan Sedich
>> >>>>>> > > > <[email protected]>
>> >>>>>> > > > wrote:
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > >> No problems,
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > >> Something that caught me too, I knew a few people that were
>> >>>>>> > > >> not
>> >>>>>> > > >> aware
>> >>>>>> > > >> and they had never stress tested their apps or realised it
>> >>>>>> > > >> was
>> >>>>>> > > >> resetting (dangerous). I am glad I profile my stuff before
>> >>>>>> > > >> putting it
>> >>>>>> > > >> anywhere near production. I guess releasing is the way
>> >>>>>> > > >> proper
>> >>>>>> > > >> way to
>> >>>>>> > > >> handle things, but I have been naughty and just used
>> >>>>>> > > >> NoTracking.
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > >> Cheers
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > >> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Andrew Smith
>> >>>>>> > > >> <[email protected]>
>> >>>>>> > > >> wrote:
>> >>>>>> > > >> > Hi Stefan,
>> >>>>>> > > >> >  you know as soon as I posted that, of course I came
>> >>>>>> > > >> > across
>> >>>>>> > > >> > details on
>> >>>>>> > > >> > this
>> >>>>>> > > >> > issue. In fact your very blog post. In all the time I've
>> >>>>>> > > >> > used
>> >>>>>> > > >> > castle,
>> >>>>>> > > I
>> >>>>>> > > >> > never realised I was expected to explicitly release a
>> >>>>>> > > >> > transient
>> >>>>>> > > >> > component.
>> >>>>>> > > >> > By the sounds of it, I'm sure that will be the cause as
>> >>>>>> > > >> > I'm
>> >>>>>> > > >> > using
>> >>>>>> > > >> > windsor
>> >>>>>> > > >> > integration heavily and can easily repro the issue with a
>> >>>>>> > > >> > local stress
>> >>>>>> > > >> > test.
>> >>>>>> > > >> >  Thanks for the info
>> >>>>>> > > >> > Cheers,
>> >>>>>> > > >> > Andrew
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > >> > On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Stefan Sedich <
>> >>>>>> > > [email protected]>
>> >>>>>> > > >> > wrote:
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> Andrew,
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> I have built a few simmilar sounding shop fronts, with
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> medium load
>> >>>>>> > > and
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> have not had issues with memory leaks with the app pools
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> running
>> >>>>>> > > solid
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> until their nightly reset.
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> If you hit your site with a web stress testing tool do
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> you
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> see the
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> memory continue to climb until app pool reset? If this is
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> the case it
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> is possible you have a memory leak.
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> I would suggest getting a tool like ANTS profiler to see
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> if
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> you can
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> track down any memory leaks in your application and then
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> go
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> from
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> there. I would say from what I have seen in my apps
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> ~200MB
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> seems
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> reasonable depending on what it is doing.
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> In my last project I had similar issues you describe. In
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> my
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> case I
>> >>>>>> > > was
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> using Windsor and not releasing my components from the
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> container when
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> I was done with them. In my case I decided to not release
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> my
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> objects
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> and use the NoTrackingReleasePolicy instead, as this was
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> fine for my
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> needs and removed the leak that I had.
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> I have blogged about this here:
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > >
>> >>>>>> > > > >http://weblogs.asp.net/stefansedich/archive/2008/11/05/avoid-memory-l...
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> Cheers
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> Stefan
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Andrew
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> <[email protected]>
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> wrote:
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > I've just launched an e-commerce website based on
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > Monorail
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > and
>> >>>>>> > > using
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > ActiveRecord. It's a replacement of a previous PHP
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > solution and we
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > have on average about 20 - 30 concurrent users at any
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > given time.
>> >>>>>> > > I'm
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > also running an admin site in the same application
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > pool.
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> >  My issue is to do with memory usage. I'm running on a
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > 1GB
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > VPS box
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > (also hosting a SQL Server DB on same machine). I've
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > limited SQL
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > Server to 200MB and my IIS6 worker process to 400MB.
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > However, even
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > pre-
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > release when testing with 1 or 2 users the memory usage
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > would
>> >>>>>> > > easily
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > sit around the 300MB mark. Now with the real load, I'm
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > seeing the
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > application pool recycle approx every 40 mins (normally
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > should only
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > recycle at 3am). I'm using the ASP.Net state service so
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > session
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > details are preserved but still, I'm concerned
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> >  As I said, it's an e-commerce site so there's the
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > usual
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > shop
>> >>>>>> > > stuff:
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > lots of nice pics, searches, checkout and a bit of 2nd
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > level
>> >>>>>> > > caching
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > for things such as categories (max 200 categories),
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > countries,
>> >>>>>> > > rates
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > etc. Really not that much is cached and mem usage was
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > high
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > before
>> >>>>>> > > we
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > fully optimised the site. I've been careful to have the
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > SQL
>> >>>>>> > > profiler
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > beside me as we were testing the app, so I'm confident
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > that I don't
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > have N+1s all over the place. Oh, and I'm using
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > standard
>> >>>>>> > > session-per-
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > request model using Ayende's UOW stuff
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> >  I guess what I'm asking is: Is that level of memory
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > usage
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > expected
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > for that type of site? I would love to hear back from
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > anyone who
>> >>>>>> > > has
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > launched a similar type of site.
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> >  I did see a previous post about this, but they are
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > talking around
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > the
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > 200MB mark, so I'm wondering what on earth I'm doing
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > wrong!
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > There is the option of shelling out more cash and go to
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > a
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > 2GB VPS
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > box,
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > but I'd rather not have to....
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> > cheers
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> --
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> Stefan Sedich
>> >>>>>> > > >> >> Software Developer
>> >>>>>> > > >> >>http://weblogs.asp.net/stefansedich
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > >> --
>> >>>>>> > > >> Stefan Sedich
>> >>>>>> > > >> Software Developer
>> >>>>>> > > >>http://weblogs.asp.net/stefansedich
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > > --
>> >>>>>> > > Stefan Sedich
>> >>>>>> > > Software Developer
>> >>>>>> > >http://weblogs.asp.net/stefansedich
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
> >
>

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