In one sense I can agree with him, in that some people only learn the *test*, and do not develop an in-depth expertise of the subject matter and in a real sense are worthless from a practical standpoint. But then again, I have a high standard definition for what makes you an expert, so meh :)
My $0.02 On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Wayne Lawson <groupst...@ipexpert.com>wrote: > Erwan - you don't think the CCIE is the "expert" of networking.....are you > nuts?....Do you not understand the IT industry?.... > > Regards, > Wayne A. Lawson II - CCIE #5244 > Founder & President - IPexpert, Inc. > Mailto: <wlaw...@ipexpert.com>wlaw...@ipexpert.com > Mobile: +1.810.334.1564 > > :: Message sent from iPhone. > > On Sep 3, 2009, at 10:45 PM, Erwan Erwan <e_er...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Hi Jon, > > Congrats, definitely I understand your feeling , when u have to passed > with hard work compare to those that cheat the lab. > > Just my opinion looking at the situation in my company on what we see about > CCIE > > I do not really agree if CCIE cert is the expert/doctorate in networking, > cause it more to config and troubleshoot for the cisco equipments. And i > think that is the reason Cisco create it beside the marketing behind it :) > > And I meet lots out there with 20 years exp , even without CCNA , got the > skills and knowledge beyond CCIEs, like understanding the protocol and work > on multiplaform for voice. Sometimes those guy can solve the issue better > than TAC cause they hv more comprehensive knowledge. > > Just opinion :) > > Thks, > > > > --- On *Thu, 9/3/09, Jonathan Charles <jonv...@gmail.com>* wrote: > > > From: Jonathan Charles <jonv...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] Passed, thanks! > To: "jeremy co" <jeremy.coo...@gmail.com> > Cc: <ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com>ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com > Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 2:29 PM > > The problem is that there are some integrators that actually do a > technical interview... Some companies understand the CCIE is > meaningless and ignore the certification. > > I do not. > > If you have a CCIE, then I need to CCIE levels of skill. > > > > Jonathan > > On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 12:44 AM, jeremy > co<<http://us.mc587.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jeremy.coo...@gmail.com> > jeremy.coo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > No offence, > > But IMO you don't need 5 years or whatever years of experience to get > CCIE. > > for being comfortable with lots of issues in the field I agree with you > > though. CCIE is just an exam, neither proving you have field experience > nor > > knowledge of networking needed for real world project it proves that you > > understand certain aspect of technology front and back that falls within > > CCIE exam blueprint.yet acknowledge your troubleshooting skills on those > > areas. > > if sb ever went through AAR setup and troubleshooting could answer your > > question, However cheater's would't be able to answer that. > > Anyway , I encourage people to start their CCIE journey even if you have > > zero experience, buy equipment, get hands on , read Docs and I call it > > experience. you don't have to be in the field to know in and out of > working > > with cisco equipments you already have in your home lab. > > > > my 2 cents. > > > > Jeremy > > On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Jonathan Charles > > <<http://us.mc587.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jonv...@gmail.com> > jonv...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> Just some quick things I wanted to add.... > >> > >> > >> First, take this lab as soon as you can... DO NOT WAIT. > >> > >> When Cisco adds DNS, AD, OCS, SIP Providers, T.38 faxing to CUC, VPIM > >> and a crap load of techs they can't test for yet (missing underlying > >> infrastructure right now...), this test will become nearly impossible > >> > >> <moral high horse> > >> > >> Second, I have been doing Cisco VoIP for 5 years now. I started doing > >> day 2 support for SBC back in 2004. > >> > >> I have the CCNP, CCDP, CCSP and I was one of the first few dozen > >> people to get the CCVP in May of 2005. > >> > >> I have been working on CCM since it was called CCM... I consider > >> myself an expert at dial peers, telco issues, Unity, CallManager (and > >> CUCM) IPCC, Routing and Switching. > >> > >> I took the R&S Lab back in 2003 (failed it and gave up and went to do > >> voip...)... > >> > >> All of that being said, I want everyone to realize that the CCIE is > >> NOT a beginner's certification. > >> > >> I mean to say, that if you have less than 5 years of experience in > >> voice, you should expect 5 years of pain and suffering before passing. > >> > >> The people out there braindumping the exam and passing it with no > >> skills will never get through a tech interview worth a damn. And they > >> certainly won't be worth a crap on a customer site. > >> > >> I have a tech interview that will annihilate any posers... I do not > >> ask factoid questions, "What plugs into an FXS?" for example, all of > >> my questions end with the line, 'walk me through your troubleshooting > >> procedure...' > >> > >> And yes, I have had CCIE R&S's try to get past me who didn't know why > >> OSPF wouldn't come up when a DS3 was terminating a bunch of DS1s. And > >> I have had CCIE Voice's try to get past me who couldn't answer this > >> question...: > >> > >> "You have a remote office, Automatic Alternate Routing is implemented > >> correctly. During a WAN outage, calls are not rerouting to the PSTN, > >> walk me through your troubleshooting procedure." > >> > >> Yes, the question is mean, yes, the question is unfair and YES, a > >> customer once asked me why calls didn't reroute during a WAN outage. > >> > >> > >> The next time someone tells you that you should cheat on the exam, ask > >> them the above question, see if they can answer it, see if they could > >> handle the normal onslaught of customer questions when you have to > >> explain the limitations and features of Cisco products. > >> > >> </moral highhorse> > >> > >> Party on. > >> > >> > >> Jonathan > >> > >> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 11:46 PM, Jonathan > >> Charles<<http://us.mc587.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jonv...@gmail.com> > jonv...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > OK, took it on Tuesday and passed version 3.0 in RTP... my number is > >> > 25309 > >> > > >> > So, that is done, one less thing. > >> > > >> > Here is how I did it.... > >> > > >> > A lot of people post things about how they studied and studied, yeah I > >> > did that. > >> > > >> > I did two things. > >> > > >> > I built an exact rack of the lab, here is what it was: > >> > > >> > Three DL380 G3s, CUCM Pub, Sub and UCCX 7. > >> > CUPS and CUC ran on VMWare... > >> > > >> > HQ had a Cisco 3750-24PS and a 2821 with a VWIC-1MFT-T1 and a WIC-1T > >> > with Three PVDM sticks: a 32, a 48 and a 64 (don't ask...) > >> > > >> > SiteB (BR1 for IPExpert labs) was a 2811 with a VWIC-1MFT-T1, a > >> > HWIC-4ESW and a WIC-1T with two PVDM sticks and 16 and a 48 > >> > > >> > SiteC (BR2) was a 2821 with a VWIC-2MFT-E1, an NME-CUE, a > >> > -HWIC-9-ESW-D and two PVDM 64s > >> > > >> > Phones were four 7965s, one 7971, two 7961s. > >> > > >> > For the PSTN Router, I used a 3750 with an NM-4T, NM-32A/S, a > >> > VWIC-2MFT-T1 and VWIC-2MFT-E1 and an AIM-VOICE-30, the PSTN phone was > >> > a 7960. > >> > > >> > > >> > I then got the IPExpert stuff, watched the videos, and read thru the > >> > labs. > >> > > >> > I used the audio bootcamp to write a book for the lab (this was for > >> > V2), it was 390 pages long with screen shots on how to do everything > >> > in CallManager 4.1, Unity 4.0 and IPCC 4.0, with detailed step by step > >> > guides to do everything on a Cisco router for voice. > >> > > >> > I then updated it for v3 by adding a section for CUPS, CUC and > >> > updating every page for the v3 test. There are sceeenshots for the > >> > CUE, for CCME, for everything... I even walk you through script > >> > creation... > >> > > >> > I then read the book over and over, used it as a reference guide for > >> > my labs, configured everything I could think of, if it wasn't in the > >> > book, it got added... I had the thing at work with me everywhere I > >> > went, if I ran into something scary at work, it went in the book.... I > >> > re-read it over and over, checking for errors, proofing it, fact > >> > checking every word... adding jokes... > >> > > >> > It is now 760 pages and two volumes (it was crashing Word)... > >> > > >> > Just to preempt this... It is not for sale, it is not for sharing... > >> > it contains craploads of copyrighted info from IPexpert, Internetwork > >> > Expert, CCBootcamp and Cisco (stolen info from Networkers slides) > >> > basically just a tome of data. > >> > > >> > Here is why it is not for sale or for sharing. > >> > > >> > To get the effect I got, you need to write this book yourself, I > >> > recommend that everyone do so.... use something to start, I recommend > >> > NOT using a written source (you will just copy and paste)... the audio > >> > bootcamps are perfect for this... you can use it as a framework for > >> > notes and then flesh out your sections.... > >> > > >> > The CCIE is considered the doctorate in internetworking... I wrote my > >> > thesis and defended it yesterday. > >> > > >> > Good luck. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Jonathan > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, > please > >> visit <http://www.ipexpert.com>www.ipexpert.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please > visit <http://www.ipexpert.com>www.ipexpert.com > > > _______________________________________________ > For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please > visit <http://www.ipexpert.com>www.ipexpert.com > > > _______________________________________________ > For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please > visit www.ipexpert.com > >
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