Hey, I passed one of those 'expert' exams, the Nortel Passport
Frame-Relay exam... was like the CCIE, but without the difficulty.

I asked the proctor to clarify a question and she showed me how to do it...

Yeah, I treasure that one...

To be honest, I do actually have some skills.

I have deployed Exchange 2007 UM, I have deployed quite a few AD
forests in my day... I even did our companies (mostly cuz I was
annoyed by the person who did it and redid it....)...

I configured our Firewalls (ASA 5510 with CSC at head-end 5505's
everywhere else), I installed a pair of 3524s to replace an out of
contract 3560... (being replaced in 10-day warranty) I know how to
configure a switch, I know how to route...

Yes, I am not a programmer, but I can do IPCC scripting (designed and
implemented quite a few call centers...)

I can write a SOW, a BOM and PCR... I know that that FXO didn't show
up because he stuffed it in a router without DSPs (or the lines are
ground start and they threw away the little grounding connector for
the router...)


Jonathan

On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Michael Ciarfello<[email protected]> wrote:
> You are both right.  CCIE is the cream of the crop certification across all
> vendors (Microsoft, Novell (past), HP, Linux, etc, etc, etc.  Bay Networks
> tried to have a CCIE-like exam in the mid 90's where there was a practical.
> They're gone now.  Avaya (the number 2 IPT vendor in the world?) I believe
> still has some kind of cert.  Who wants that?  Shoretel?  lol.  Shoretel is
> for traditional PBX techs that embraced change.  So yes, CCIE is still the
> most sought after certification. It's skills are useful in other vendor's
> warez.  A Cisco R&S CCIE should have no problems configuring an Extreme
> switch, etc.
>
> On the other hand, the cheater sites and cheaters have taken a BIG dent out
> of the intregrity of the exam.  I think Cisco has corrected this in the
> latest revs and it might be on the way up again.
>
> The third hand (hey, I'm weird, but I can type MUCH faster) I have heard
> from multiple people of whom I regard that certifications in general are
> becoming less and less important.  Companies are looking for experience
> (already discussed.)  What I would like to add is to be claimed as an
> expert, you should also know how to write (as in a Scope of Work, a testing
> plan, an implementation plan, a change order, a presentation, etc, etc,
> etc)
>
> An expert also should know how to call out parts and determine
> compatibility.  You are on the job and are short one FXO port. A customer
> says, here, I have this VIC-2FXO.  You put it in the 3845 and it doesn't
> work.  How about you are asked to install 1,000 more phones and the customer
> has two 7825 servers.
>
> Our company has turned down many a CCIE becasue they had ZERO skill in
> writing scope of works, pre-sales, some project management, etc.  It's just
> a skill we look for.  These multi-facated skills are what more and more
> companies are looking for.
>
> Don't forget that IPT Is changing FAST.  Last year it was dialtone and IPT.
> This year it's Unified Communications with phones, handheld devices,
> presence, mobility, etc.  Take a look at the Cisco products.  Now we have
> Phone Proxy--You have to know firewalls (ASA).  CUMA also needs firewall.
> Conferencing and web collaboration (MeetingPlace, third party video
> endpoints and systems such as Tandberg, Polycom, etc.)  Pretty soon there
> might not be any more MCS servers.  VMWare and blade computing (what's the
> new Cisco data center product there???) you will have to know about in order
> to even install these products.  3750's and 6500's are becoming VSS switches
> and Nexus switches.  You can't expect to have 500 people come into a project
> so each person does his/her slice of the pie. Or to troubleshoot something
> simple.  Project would never end waiting for all those skill-sets or getting
> more than one skill-set onsite at the same time.
>
> Switching: VSS and Nexus. Voice CCIE exam doesn't even deal with something
> simple like VTP.  I need another switch for all these VG224's.  Here, use
> this switch. It was undermy desk.  Yea thanks, no problem. I setup a 3750 on
> the CCIE test.
>
> Routing: becasue customers have MPLS today and who here knows how to work
> with BGP?  Access Lists, Distribution lists, how come the IP phones can't
> communicate with the remote site?  Ping doesn't even work.
>
> Microsoft:  OCS anyone?  More advanced Active Directory?
>
> Conferencing:  MeetingPlace, third party endpoints, etc.
>
> Hey, security wants to be able to talk to person X on their handhelds.
> Radio over IP anyone? (IPICS)  Heavy Multicast usage.  And I see people on
> these forums cry about getting Multicast Moh working.
>
> The silos we all used to play in are now melting down into one big pot and
> we better know how to cook with all those ingredients.
> ________________________________
> From: [email protected]
> [[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nara Shikamaru
> [[email protected]]
> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 7:16 PM
> To: Wayne Lawson
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] Passed, thanks!
>
> No, he's right, it doesn't make someone an expert.  No method of training
> can prepare people for the real world like . . . the real world!  Experience
> is king.  I work with an Engineer at Cisco who is, in fact, a CCIE . . . in
> R&S.  His specialty today is in IPCC Enterprise, he's not CCIE Voice and I
> can't think of anyone I would rather speak with when it comes to call
> centers.  It's clear when we talk that he not only has a strong command of
> voice applications and call centers but he also understands the appropriate
> application of the technology when it comes to organizations.  He gets it
> because he's done it.  No education or training in the world can beat
> experience, Ivy League schools can't teach a person to be an effective
> professional, high schools and colleges can't prepare people for
> everything.  Education and training is the best start to any worthwhile
> endeavor.  But that's all it is; a start.
>
> On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Wayne Lawson <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Erwan - you don't think the CCIE is the "expert" of networking.....are you
>> nuts?....Do you not understand the IT industry?....
>>
>> Regards,
>> Wayne A. Lawson II - CCIE #5244
>> Founder & President - IPexpert, Inc.
>> Mailto: [email protected]
>> Mobile: +1.810.334.1564
>> :: Message sent from iPhone.
>> On Sep 3, 2009, at 10:45 PM, Erwan Erwan <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Jon,
>>
>> Congrats, definitely  I understand your feeling , when u have to passed
>> with hard work compare to those that cheat the lab.
>>
>> Just my opinion looking at the situation in my company on what we
>> see about CCIE
>>
>>  I do not really agree if CCIE cert is the expert/doctorate in networking,
>> cause it more to config and troubleshoot for the cisco equipments. And i
>> think that is the reason Cisco create it beside the marketing behind it :)
>>
>> And I meet lots out there with 20 years exp , even without CCNA , got the
>> skills and knowledge beyond CCIEs, like understanding the protocol and work
>> on multiplaform for voice.   Sometimes those guy can solve the issue better
>> than TAC cause they hv more comprehensive knowledge.
>>
>> Just opinion :)
>>
>> Thks,
>>
>>
>> --- On Thu, 9/3/09, Jonathan Charles <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> From: Jonathan Charles <[email protected]>
>> Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] Passed, thanks!
>> To: "jeremy co" <[email protected]>
>> Cc: [email protected]
>> Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 2:29 PM
>>
>> The problem is that there are some integrators that actually do a
>> technical interview... Some companies understand the CCIE is
>> meaningless and ignore the certification.
>>
>> I do not.
>>
>> If you have a CCIE, then I need to CCIE levels of skill.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 12:44 AM, jeremy co<[email protected]> wrote:
>> > No offence,
>> > But IMO you don't need 5 years or whatever years of experience to get
>> > CCIE.
>> > for being comfortable with lots of issues in the field I agree with you
>> > though. CCIE is just an exam, neither proving you have field experience
>> > nor
>> > knowledge of networking needed for real world project it proves that you
>> > understand certain aspect of technology front and back that falls within
>> > CCIE exam blueprint.yet acknowledge your troubleshooting skills on those
>> > areas.
>> > if sb ever went through AAR setup and troubleshooting could answer your
>> > question, However cheater's would't be able to answer that.
>> > Anyway , I encourage people to start their CCIE journey even if you have
>> > zero experience, buy equipment, get hands on , read Docs and I call it
>> > experience. you don't have to be in the field to know in and out of
>> > working
>> > with cisco equipments you already have in your home lab.
>> >
>> > my 2 cents.
>> >
>> > Jeremy
>> > On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Jonathan Charles <[email protected]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Just some quick things I wanted to add....
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> First, take this lab as soon as you can... DO NOT WAIT.
>> >>
>> >> When Cisco adds DNS, AD, OCS, SIP Providers, T.38 faxing to CUC, VPIM
>> >> and a crap load of techs they can't test for yet (missing underlying
>> >> infrastructure right now...), this test will become nearly impossible
>> >>
>> >> <moral high horse>
>> >>
>> >> Second, I have been doing Cisco VoIP for 5 years now. I started doing
>> >> day 2 support for SBC back in 2004.
>> >>
>> >> I have the CCNP, CCDP, CCSP and I was one of the first few dozen
>> >> people to get the CCVP in May of 2005.
>> >>
>> >> I have been working on CCM since it was called CCM... I consider
>> >> myself an expert at dial peers, telco issues, Unity, CallManager (and
>> >> CUCM) IPCC, Routing and Switching.
>> >>
>> >> I took the R&S Lab back in 2003 (failed it and gave up and went to do
>> >> voip...)...
>> >>
>> >> All of that being said, I want everyone to realize that the CCIE is
>> >> NOT a beginner's certification.
>> >>
>> >> I mean to say, that if you have less than 5 years of experience in
>> >> voice, you should expect 5 years of pain and suffering before passing.
>> >>
>> >> The people out there braindumping the exam and passing it with no
>> >> skills will never get through a tech interview worth a damn. And they
>> >> certainly won't be worth a crap on a customer site.
>> >>
>> >> I have a tech interview that will annihilate any posers... I do not
>> >> ask factoid questions, "What plugs into an FXS?" for example, all of
>> >> my questions end with the line, 'walk me through your troubleshooting
>> >> procedure...'
>> >>
>> >> And yes, I have had CCIE R&S's try to get past me who didn't know why
>> >> OSPF wouldn't come up when a DS3 was terminating a bunch of DS1s. And
>> >> I have had CCIE Voice's try to get past me who couldn't answer this
>> >> question...:
>> >>
>> >> "You have a remote office, Automatic Alternate Routing is implemented
>> >> correctly. During a WAN outage, calls are not rerouting to the PSTN,
>> >> walk me through your troubleshooting procedure."
>> >>
>> >> Yes, the question is mean, yes, the question is unfair and YES, a
>> >> customer once asked me why calls didn't reroute during a WAN outage.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The next time someone tells you that you should cheat on the exam, ask
>> >> them the above question, see if they can answer it, see if they could
>> >> handle the normal onslaught of customer questions when you have to
>> >> explain the limitations and features of Cisco products.
>> >>
>> >> </moral highhorse>
>> >>
>> >> Party on.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Jonathan
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 11:46 PM, Jonathan Charles<[email protected]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > OK, took it on Tuesday and passed version 3.0 in RTP... my number is
>> >> > 25309
>> >> >
>> >> > So, that is done, one less thing.
>> >> >
>> >> > Here is how I did it....
>> >> >
>> >> > A lot of people post things about how they studied and studied, yeah
>> >> > I
>> >> > did that.
>> >> >
>> >> > I did two things.
>> >> >
>> >> > I built an exact rack of the lab, here is what it was:
>> >> >
>> >> > Three DL380 G3s, CUCM Pub, Sub and UCCX 7.
>> >> > CUPS and CUC ran on VMWare...
>> >> >
>> >> > HQ had a  Cisco 3750-24PS and a 2821 with a VWIC-1MFT-T1 and a WIC-1T
>> >> > with Three PVDM sticks: a 32, a 48 and a 64 (don't ask...)
>> >> >
>> >> > SiteB (BR1 for IPExpert labs) was a 2811 with a VWIC-1MFT-T1, a
>> >> > HWIC-4ESW and a WIC-1T with two PVDM sticks and 16 and a 48
>> >> >
>> >> > SiteC (BR2) was a 2821 with a VWIC-2MFT-E1, an NME-CUE, a
>> >> > -HWIC-9-ESW-D and two PVDM 64s
>> >> >
>> >> > Phones were four 7965s, one 7971, two 7961s.
>> >> >
>> >> > For the PSTN Router, I used a 3750 with an NM-4T, NM-32A/S, a
>> >> > VWIC-2MFT-T1 and VWIC-2MFT-E1 and an AIM-VOICE-30, the PSTN phone was
>> >> > a 7960.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I then got the IPExpert stuff, watched the videos, and read thru the
>> >> > labs.
>> >> >
>> >> > I used the audio bootcamp to write a book for the lab (this was for
>> >> > V2), it was 390 pages long with screen shots on how to do everything
>> >> > in CallManager 4.1, Unity 4.0 and IPCC 4.0, with detailed step by
>> >> > step
>> >> > guides to do everything on a Cisco router for voice.
>> >> >
>> >> > I then updated it for v3 by adding a section for CUPS, CUC and
>> >> > updating every page for the v3 test. There are sceeenshots for the
>> >> > CUE, for CCME, for everything... I even walk you through script
>> >> > creation...
>> >> >
>> >> > I then read the book over and over, used it as a reference guide for
>> >> > my labs, configured everything I could think of, if it wasn't in the
>> >> > book, it got added... I had the thing at work with me everywhere I
>> >> > went, if I ran into something scary at work, it went in the book....
>> >> > I
>> >> > re-read it over and over, checking for errors, proofing it, fact
>> >> > checking every word... adding jokes...
>> >> >
>> >> > It is now 760 pages and two volumes (it was crashing Word)...
>> >> >
>> >> > Just to preempt this... It is not for sale, it is not for sharing...
>> >> > it contains craploads of copyrighted info from IPexpert, Internetwork
>> >> > Expert, CCBootcamp and Cisco (stolen info from Networkers slides)
>> >> > basically just a tome of data.
>> >> >
>> >> > Here is why it is not for sale or for sharing.
>> >> >
>> >> > To get the effect I got, you need to write this book yourself, I
>> >> > recommend that everyone do so.... use something to start, I recommend
>> >> > NOT using a written source (you will just copy and paste)... the
>> >> > audio
>> >> > bootcamps are perfect for this... you can use it as a framework for
>> >> > notes and then flesh out your sections....
>> >> >
>> >> > The CCIE is considered the doctorate in internetworking... I wrote my
>> >> > thesis and defended it yesterday.
>> >> >
>> >> > Good luck.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Jonathan
>> >> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training,
>> >> please
>> >> visit www.ipexpert.com
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please
>> visit www.ipexpert.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please
>> visit www.ipexpert.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please
>> visit www.ipexpert.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> -Shikamaru
>
> _______________________________________________
> For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please
> visit www.ipexpert.com
>
>
_______________________________________________
For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please visit 
www.ipexpert.com

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