By coincidence this just landed in my Inbox: http://membercentral.aaas.org/multimedia/webinars/how-recruit-citizen-scientists-discovery
So maybe after all Tom is way ahead of the rest of us in his structure-solving strategy - though I agree with others that his tactics need to be honed somewhat! Cheers -- Ian On 28 March 2013 14:43, Raji Edayathumangalam <[email protected]> wrote: > Ed, I very much agree with you. We've all had to learn that questions > posted to ccp4bb and the ensuing discussions take on a life of their own. > Once one posts a question on ccp4bb, there's no such thing as "steering" > the direction of the discussion on the ccp4bb and there's no such thing as > the equivalent of screaming "Stop! Stop! Stop!" on the ccp4bb. > > Also, I don't believe people simply woke up one day and posted irritating > or mean comments to ccp4bb. Ed was spot on for why some folks reacted the > way they did to the post so let's acknowledge that as well. > > I didn't get the impression that any of the replies suggested that > students stop posting questions. There are many many students on this BB > who are in small institutions without even the minimal help at arm's length > and who get tons of help from posting questions to the ccp4bb. That > situation is not all that distant in my own memory and I suspect for many > other experts on this BB. But posting 10MB attachments and getting the > entire ccp4bb community to crowdsource towards problem solving is all good, > but only to a certain degree. It may be great to get things done quickly > with the collective intellect of the ccp4bb but there comes a point when > the correct answers may get fed back at such a rapid speed that if one > doesn't go back and try to figure stuff out for oneself, including the > reasons/theory/logic behind the answers/solutions that the community has > posted, it may be to the detriment of one's own learning, especially if one > is in the early stages of learning the subject matter. > > Cheers, > Raji > > > > > On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 9:09 AM, Ed Pozharski <[email protected]>wrote: > >> On Thu, 2013-03-28 at 12:15 +0000, Tom Van den Bergh wrote: >> > I think this is a good time to end the discussion. >> >> As a general comment, discussions on boards like ccp4bb often digress >> and take direction different from you original intent. I may understand >> your desire to try to control the situation, but if people on this board >> feel that the questions of data sharing, student training, netiquette >> and proper choice of resolution cutoff are worthy of further discussion >> (that may not have much to do with specifics of your original request >> for assistance), it is their right too. >> >> What may have caused some extra grief is this unfortunate turn of phrase >> in your original post >> >> "Could you try some refinement for me, because this is first structure >> that i need to solve as a student and i dont have too many experience >> with it." >> >> It goes a bit beyond the usual "my R-values are too high what should I >> do" question and may be instinctively construed as if you expect someone >> to actually do your work for you (I am sure that is not what you asked). >> So a bit of a vigorous reaction that you received likely results from >> misunderstanding your intent (albeit posting your data is very unusual >> and strengthens the impression) and perhaps misplaced feeling that you >> have abandoned attempts to resolve the problem independently too soon. >> I did *not* look at your data and therefore I may be completely wrong >> here, but it is my understanding that your actual issue was not >> realizing there could be more than one molecule in the asymmetric unit. >> >> More traditional route is to describe your situation in general terms >> and offer to provide data to those willing to take a closer look. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Ed. >> >> >> -- >> "Hurry up before we all come back to our senses!" >> Julian, King of Lemurs >> > > > > -- > Raji Edayathumangalam > Instructor in Neurology, Harvard Medical School > Research Associate, Brigham and Women's Hospital > Visiting Research Scholar, Brandeis University > >
