Hi Ian Yes, I was suspicious about the Maxwell quote in creation.com as it seemed to be referring to molecules rather than life forms. Of course proteins are molecules too but the chemical mechanism of evolution in living systems was a mystery to both Darwin and Maxwell. Darwin felt he had to hide his lack of religious belief whereas Maxwell did embrace religion. Nothing wrong with that in my view. I always think Maxwell’s status as a scientist has been largely ignored by the general public in the UK. He introduced his electromagnetic theory mainly talking about the work of others and finishing with saying he did have an alternative theory. Colin
From: CCP4 bulletin board <CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK> On Behalf Of Ian Tickle Sent: 06 November 2022 20:43 To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Another folding AI Hi Colin That seems to be a fundamental misinterpretation of what Maxwell actually said (and being half Scot myself I feel obliged to defend him!). To add one more quote to the mix, that of Charles Petzold in his review of the historical evidence for the claim of the creationists: Abstract: Modern-day Christian creationists have claimed nineteenth-century Scottish physicist James Clerk Maxwell as one of their own. The author explores the historical evidence and discovers that Maxwell's attitude toward evolution was more nuanced than people assume. The characterization of Maxwell as an anti-Darwin creationist is based on exaggerations, misinterpretations, and (probably most of all) wishful thinking. https://www.charlespetzold.com/etc/MaxwellMoleculesAndEvolution.html Cheers -- Ian On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 at 20:13, Nave, Colin (DLSLtd,RAL,LSCI) <000064fdcfc6624b-dmarc-requ...@jiscmail.ac.uk<mailto:000064fdcfc6624b-dmarc-requ...@jiscmail.ac.uk>> wrote: All these quotes are great fun and worth keeping in mind, along with many others. I hadn’t realised that the creationists had adopted James Clark Maxwell as one of their own. However he didn’t go as far as one present day scientist who believes the earth is no more than 10,000 years old. Which discipline? Palaeontology of course. This person is not even some old fossil. I always liked George Box’s comments about models. I remember Eleanor Dodson saying, probably at some CCP4 refinement study weekend, that a structure obtained by protein crystallography was like a curate’s egg. She might have predated George Box with this thought. There should not be any doubt that AF2 models are useful though. The question is how far their usefulness extends. From: CCP4 bulletin board <CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK<mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK>> On Behalf Of Bryan Lepore Sent: 05 November 2022 17:03 To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK<mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK> Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Another folding AI And of course, "... all models are approximations. Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful. However, the approximate nature of the model must always be borne in mind...." Box, G. E. P.; Draper, N. R. (1987) Empirical Model-Building and Response Surfaces John Wiley & Sons "Since all models are wrong the scientist must be alert to what is importantly wrong. It is inappropriate to be concerned about mice when there are tigers abroad." Box, George E. P. (1976) "Science and statistics"<http://www-sop.inria.fr/members/Ian.Jermyn/philosophy/writings/Boxonmaths.pdf> Journal of the American Statistical Association<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal_of_the_American_Statistical_Association> 71 (356): 791-799 doi<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doi_(identifier)>:10.1080/01621459.1976.10480949<https://doi.org/10.1080%2F01621459.1976.10480949> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_models_are_wrong ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 -- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential, copyright and or privileged material, and are for the use of the intended addressee only. If you are not the intended addressee or an authorised recipient of the addressee please notify us of receipt by returning the e-mail and do not use, copy, retain, distribute or disclose the information in or attached to the e-mail. Any opinions expressed within this e-mail are those of the individual and not necessarily of Diamond Light Source Ltd. Diamond Light Source Ltd. cannot guarantee that this e-mail or any attachments are free from viruses and we cannot accept liability for any damage which you may sustain as a result of software viruses which may be transmitted in or with the message. Diamond Light Source Limited (company no. 4375679). Registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Diamond House, Harwell Science and Innovation Campus, Didcot, Oxfordshire, OX11 0DE, United Kingdom ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 This message was issued to members of www.jiscmail.ac.uk/CCP4BB, a mailing list hosted by www.jiscmail.ac.uk, terms & conditions are available at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/
