dead (no longer used in production) vs lost (media dors not exist even if you wanted to revive it) Bill
On Wed, Jun 17, 2026 at 1:13 AM Fred Cisin via cctalk <[email protected]> wrote: > For a languageto get CALLED "dead" does not require any of those objective > criteria. It gets called dead if somebody hasn't heard anything about it > in a long time. > > Somebody who hasn't heard anything about mainframes in years thinks that > mainframes are dead. > Somebody who hasn't heard anything about COBOL in years thinks that > COBOL is dead. > > Most stuff being called "dead" is not by objective criteria; it just > hasn't been talked about much lately. Among THAT person's social circle. > > > I agree with most of your objective criteria, except lack of recent > update. While it is true that most active languages get frequent updates, > but that isn't requisite for not being dead. > Should we say that a person is dead if they haven't been to the doctor in > 10 (25, 50) years? It would call for a wellness check, but hardly an > assumption of demise. > Recently some AI generated facebook post recounted Cliff Stoll's famous > tracking down of intruders. The same article said that Cliff died in May > 2024. Cliff says that the news of his death is slightly exaggerated. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred [email protected] > > On Tue, 16 Jun 2026, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > > > > > I'm sure there are more "dead" computer languages than there are > > living ones. > > > > However, what is the definition of a dead computer language. Here > > are a few potential definitions (choose one or more or add your own): > > > > * If the language is not running, as an interpreter or compiler, on > > any currently manufactured computer. Running on antique > > computers > > or simulators doesn't count. > > * If no one is being paid to program in that language or maintain > > code > > in that language. > > * If the standards for the language have not been updated in more > > than > > 10 (25, 50) years. > > * If the language is no longer being used in a production/commercial > > environment. > > * If the language is only being used in the > > hobbyist/historian/antique/simulation environments. > > > > Here is an example question: There is an in production add on to an > > antique computer written and being supported in Forth. The Forth > > interpreter/compiler is running on a modern ARM based micro. Even > > though the target of the product is an antique computer since it is > > using a current technology micro with a supported forth, I would say > > that Forth is not a dead language. > > > > Here is a list of languages from my past, how many of them are > > officially dead by one or more of the above definitions? > > > > APL > > Forth > > Lisp > > Algol > > Dibol > > Focal > > Occam > > Prolog > > Watfor & Watfive > > Ratfor > > Flap > > Ralf > > Teco (editor and macro language) > > Pilot > > DB2 > > Foxbase > > Any of the Hp Calculator languages (RPL, HP-41 User code) > > I'm sure their are dead dialects of BASIC but BASIC is currently > > supported as Visual Basic and Dartmouth Basic. > > > > Please update this list as to whether any of these languages are dead > > (by the current definition above) or alive. Also, please add new > > definitions and languages that are dead or nearly dead. > > > > Note: Dead dialects of a living language don't count.
