Ernie : What forever vexes me is why the point isn't intuitively obvious that love, for all of its great importance and necessity in life, isn't seen as part of the crux of faith rather than as equivalent to faith. Indeed, I Corinthians 13 distinguished between faith, hope, and love. There are additional distinctions to be made. Love conquers all ? Not really, again, not to minimize its importance in any way. But it isn't the last word, more like the first word. Maybe the central word, but not the only word, by any means. To say the same thing, who is a better warrior, a Marine or a member of the Pope's Swiss Guards ? Or for a really dramatic contrast, Mother Theresa or Richard the Lion Hearted ? The Marines, as I understand them, simply do not train with language like "love your enemies and always show them you care about their immortal soul." Rather, the rubric is "kill, kill, kill." Marines are also trained to respect their enemies where respect is due, but this may not be generally even if it applies to an enemy's fighting skills. In other words, if one fights, then is there any substitute for fighting to win ? If fighting to win is a Good Value, then consciousness of some sort of love imperative while in the midst of combat can well become self defeating. And disable defense of those you love. Yes, I am aware of the Sermon on the Mount, etc. But what IS that sermon ? Is it 100 % the actual words of Jesus ? Or is it, as various scholars have concluded, a compendium of Jesus' statements blended with verses that had their origins with early mystics of Christian persuasion ? I take the latter view. --to the effect that any statement in the Sermon that fails tests of logical good sense, or of uncommon but still good sense, cannot be the words of Jesus. This being the case, the argument for Christian pietism, despite its place in our shared history, is based on false premises. This means a philosophical imperative to rethink the roots of faith. Those roots must, for many reasons, remain Christian, but cannot --again, at least as I see it-- be traditionalist in character, and cannot be pietist either. That is, my interpretation of the "heart ". of Christian faith is congruent with Buddhist values. Love -compassion-- is still essential. But objectivity is central.to everything else. Billy -------------------------------------------------------------- In a message dated 4/9/2009 10:56:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:
Hi Billy, On Apr 9, 2009, at 10:14 AM, [email protected] wrote: > Here is where the battles are being fought. And here is where the > article, > as thoughtful and thought-provoking as it is, is fatally flawed. For > it is written > by a professing Christian with a fairly conventional Christian > perspective, namely, > that when all is said, love can solve all problems. > > Love can solve many problems, and without it we all are worse off. > But is it > a universal solvent ? Not hardly. It is irrelevant in many > contexts, for one thing > ( science, competitive activities of various kinds, the military ) > and it ignores > the legitimate place of strong aversion ( "hate" ) in some > contexts, viz, > we are told to hate sin. > > What is most objectionable about the article, however, is a huge > void. There is > no mention of our need for an ideology, as it were, of fighting. > As usual, I disagree. :-) To my mind, we fight *because* we love. In fact, we hate precisely those things that threaten what we love! In particular, I think this completely misses the point: > It is irrelevant in many contexts, for one thing > ( science, animated by love of truth, and love of knowledge > competitive activities of various kinds driven by a love of winning, and of being the best > , the military ) nurture by love of your country, your cause, and your fellow soldiers I agree that love isn't the *only* solution. However, I believe it is *foundational* for understanding everything else. Where we truly differ, I suspect, is that I believe it is possible to fight, do violence, and even kill out of love, without needing to actually hate my enemy. -- Ernie P. _______________________________________________ Centroids mailing list: [email protected] http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com Archives at http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/
_______________________________________________ Centroids mailing list: [email protected] http://radicalcentrism.com/mailman/listinfo/centroids_radicalcentrism.com Archives at http://radicalcentrism.org/pipermail/centroids_radicalcentrism.com/
