Nope. Not really serious at all because I know its all a pipe dream. Will
never happen. We could support the northern alliance against the Taliban
and we'de still be hated. We could give them free food from now to forever
without touching their country and still be hated. We could ignore them and
still be hated.
There's really nothing we can do there so we shouldn't really try. We
should find bin laden, remove him (alive or dead) and then just leave the
entire country alone. Tech and stealth.
But the problem is, it wouldn't end there. Bin Ladin was not alone in this.
What do we do if we find real proof (not just the Mossad's proof) that it
was Iraq? What if it was Iran? What do we do with them? Do we go in to
retaliate against them and activate all those terror cells? The entire
situation is a balancing act in the dark with knives. There's almost
nothing we can do right here. Nothing we can do without upsetting someone,
causing terror cells to attack us and/or being seen as
cowards/invaders/whatever.
The whole situation is screwed. We can talk about it all we want but its
not going to change a thing. Its not going to affect any policy. We're just
venting and talking to cope. trying to make some sense of this all.
Personally, I would not want to be Bush, Powell or anyone with power at the
moment. I don't think I could really sit down and make a solid decision on
this. I don't think any of us here could.
At 04:34 PM 9/20/01, you wrote:
>Mike,
>
>I've known you for what? 5 years now? You know I am just as opinionated
>as you. So please, do not take this the wrong way when I say.......I hope
>you are not serious!! That is absolute crazy talk!
>
>I think we all know that if we had that level of disregard for the world
>community, we would DESERVE a complete assault by all of Islam. Yes, the
>Taliban is oppressive, backwards, and tramples the rights of women in their
>society. Yes, they deny atrocities that obviously occur under their
>regime. But if we should dare to ignore the stage of world order, we are
>asking for these cells all over the world to activate in a way we have
>never seen before. To them, destroying a nation (because that is what you
>are advocating we do), would be the final signal to execute their evil
>plans no matter where they are. The fact that the clerics have advocated
>Jihad if Afghans are attacked as a nation just give these terrorist cells
>all the credibility they need to become a mass group of Martyrs.
>
>Now tell me you were not serious with that post....
>
>Gerry
>
>
>At 04:21 PM 9/20/2001 -0400, Michael Dinowitz wrote:
> >And he speaks the truth. Lets hope he is not killed for doing so.
> >I think we should go in to Afganistan, kick out the Taliban, get bin laden
> >and then rebuild the country. That'll do wonders for the people there, our
> >reputation in that part of the world and stop all those anti-Americans in
> >their tracks (for about 5 seconds).
> >
> >At 04:04 PM 9/20/01, you wrote:
> > ><This was forwarded to me, know nothing about the writer, but found it
> very
> > >interesting / Ben>
> > >
> > >The following was sent by Tamim Ansary.
> > >Tamim is an Afghani-American writer.
> > >I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the
> Stone
> > >Age."
> > >Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing
> > >innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but
> "we're
> > >at war, we have to accept collateral damage.
> > >What else can we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing
> > >whether we "have the belly to do what must be done."
> > >And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am
> > >from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never
> > >lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will
> > >listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.
> > >I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no
> doubt
> > >in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New
> York.
> > >I agree that something must be done about those monsters.
> > >But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan.
> > >They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of
> > >ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997.
> > >Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan.
> > >When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think
> Hitler.
> > >And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the
> > >concentration camps."
> > >It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity.
> > >They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if
> someone
> > >would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of
> > >international thugs holed up in their country.
> > >Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban?
> > >The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering.
> > >A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000
> > >disabled orphans in Afghanistan-a country with no economy, no food. There
> > >are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows
> alive
> > >in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all
> > >destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan
> > >people have not overthrown the Taliban.
> > >We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age.
> > >Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already.
> > >Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering.
> > >Level their houses? Done.
> > >Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done.
> > >Eradicate their hospitals? Done.
> > >Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care?
> > >Too late. Someone already did all that.
> > >New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs.
> > >Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan,
> > >only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around.
> > >They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those
> disabled
> > >orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But
> > >flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike
> against the
> > >criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would only be making
> > >common cause with the Taliban-by raping once again the people they've been
> > >raping all this time.
> > >So what else is there? What can be done, then?
> > >Let me now speak with true fear and trembling.
> > >The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When
> > >people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" they're
> > >thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed.
> Having the
> > >belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people.
> > >Let's pull our heads out of the sand.
> > >What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some
> > >Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's
> > >hideout. It's much bigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to
> > >Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not
> > >likely.
> > >The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations
> > >just stand by?
> > >You see where I'm going.
> > >We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West.
> > >And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program.
> > >That's exactly what he wants. That's why he did this.
> > >Read his speeches and statements.
> > >It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It
> might
> > >seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into
> Islam and
> > >the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in
> > >those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's
> even
> > >better from Bin Laden's point of view.
> > >He's probably wrong, in the end the west would win, whatever that would
> > >mean, but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just
> > >theirs but ours.
> > >Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does. Anyone else?
> > >Tamim Ansary
> > >
> >
>
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