If you look at those studies that reported up to a 43% misdiagnosis, those occured within the first few months after the diagnosis, NOT after 15 years.
Moreover the studies that reported suchy a high rate were from the early 90's and late 80's. Since then the definitions have been tightened up considerably. Additionally there are new diagnostic tools such as SMART, (http://www.ingentaconnect.com/search/expand?pub=infobike://tandf/tbin/2000/00000014/00000004/art00002), that have vastly improved diagnosis. larry On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 11:11:27 -0700, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > do you have a link to anything about this -- > > Moreover the imaging that has been done has shown irretrievable damage > to areas such as the cerebral cortex and the corpus callosum to such > an extent that only the lower maintenance functions within the brain > are left. In other words the higher levels of the brain (the cerebral > cortext and the mammalian brain) are atrophied or destroyed, leaving > the reptilian brain that controls breathing and other functions. In > other words what is left is a breathing corpse. Nothing of what made > Terri Shiavo is left. > > I am quite willing to believe that there is such a thing as PVS and it > is irreversible. What I am concerned about is that 43% rate of > misdiagnosis. > > Dana > > On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 13:04:50 -0500, Larry C. Lyons > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Are these people trained neurologists? What I read is impressionistic > > non-medical reports. CNA's are not trained in diagnosis. Moreover > > every diagnostic criteria I've read cautions the clinician not to > > interpret, but rather report on the actual behaviors. The propaganda > > you've reported on is pure interpretation > > -- > > http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/319/7213/841 > > > > Observation versus interpretation > > When obtaining evidence from other observers or from written material, > > it is vital that the examiner distinguishes clearly between observed > > behaviour and interpretation of the behaviour. Thus, family or staff > > should be asked directly what behaviour was actually observed. The > > examiner may then ask for their interpretations, which may show > > further observational evidence. However, interpretations made by > > observers may well be biased and the assessor should make her or his > > own interpretation. > > -- > > > > I've found in working in neuro rehab, that the CNA's are nothing more > > than glorified cleaners and feeders. The training they receive in > > medical diagnosis, and neuological assessment is nill. In other words > > their testimony is worthless from a medical diagnostic point of view. > > > > Moreover the imaging that has been done has shown irretrievable damage > > to areas such as the cerebral cortex and the corpus callosum to such > > an extent that only the lower maintenance functions within the brain > > are left. In other words the higher levels of the brain (the cerebral > > cortext and the mammalian brain) are atrophied or destroyed, leaving > > the reptilian brain that controls breathing and other functions. In > > other words what is left is a breathing corpse. Nothing of what made > > Terri Shiavo is left. > > > > here are relevant articles from various journals I've found that discuss > > PVS: > > http://jnnp.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/73/4/355 > > http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/319/7213/841 > > http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/321/7255/196 > > http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/321/7255/196 > > http://pmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/75/884/321 > > http://neurology.org/cgi/content/abstract/58/3/349 > > http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/151/5/930 > > > > http://scholar.google.com/scholar?as_q=&num=100&btnG=Search+Scholar&as_epq=Persistent+Vegetative+State&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_occt=any&as_sauthors=&as_publication=&as_ylo=1995&as_yhi=2006&hl=en&lr=&safe=off > > > > larry > > > > On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 09:38:52 -0800, Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Does this help at all? It's an affidavit from last year. > > > > > > http://www.hospicepatients.org/heidi-law-09-03-affidavit-re-terri-schiavo-michael.html > > > > > > At least three times during any shift where I took care of Terri, I > > > made sure to give Terri a wet washcloth filled with ice chips, to keep > > > her mouth moistened. I personally saw her swallow the ice water and > > > never saw her gag. > > > "[Another CNA] and I frequently put orange juice or apple juice in her > > > washcloth to give her something nice to taste, which made her happy. > > > On three or four occasions I personally fed Terri small mouthfuls of > > > Jello, which she was able to swallow and enjoyed immensely." > > > > > > 15. During the time I cared for Terri, she formed words. I have heard > > > her say "mommy" from time to time, and "momma," and she also said > > > "help me" a number of times. She would frequently make noises like > > > she was trying to talk. Other staff members talked about her > > > verbalizations. > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 11:44:59 -0500, Bill Wheatley wrote: > > > > Nah none of what he called her matters. Dana points out he has not > > > > acted as her husband for a long time and that somehow equates that to > > > > being a reason for him lose his rights as her guardian. > > > > > > > > 1) It does not matter, the piece of paper is still the piece of paper > > > > and no matter how you behave until you're divorced it is still the way > > > > it is. If i died today my wife would still be able to decide what > > > > happens to my body even though we haven't seen each other in 3 years. > > > > 2) If i was in his position i don't think i could sit by her bed alone > > > > the whole time i was going through it. I would probably find someone > > > > else too. And i can see how i might get resentful over time at all the > > > > stuff thats going on and say something out of anger. > > > > > > > > And I don't know if a feeding tube falls under HEROIC EFFORT either. > > > > But it should go along with a DNR if you don't want to be hooked up to > > > > any machines then you shouldn't be hooked up. I can't imagine how > > > > horrible a way to die starving is but until our country allows > > > > physican assisted suicide its the only way possible (Being removed > > > > from machines keeping you alive). And myself personally i would not > > > > want to be like that. I would want to given a lethal dose of morphine > > > > or precluding that i would want to be disconnected from the machines. > > > > Be it a feeding machine or a ventilator. I mean people including my gf > > > > have said its a horrible way to die and I would say dieing itself is > > > > horrible and i have come close to drowning before so i know how sucky > > > > it must be to have your ventilator pulled and not be able to breath. > > > > Sure you die faster but is it a less painful death? Nobody can say. > > > > > > > > Just because they are her parents does not make them right. And just > > > > because the hubby has made some mistakes doesn't mean he did not know > > > > her wishes. > > > > > > > > But what shouldn't be happening is the federal government jumping into > > > > a case that has been upheld all the way to the FL supreme court. The > > > > US Supreme court would not hear the case maybe because it is such a > > > > firestorm but maybe because they think there was no need and that the > > > > merits spoke for themselves. > > > > > > > > I think this is the point bluntly: > > > > We as humans should be able to do whatever we want with our bodies. > > > > It's not the f'ing govt's business. It is certainly not these > > > > buttheads business who keep jumping in and protesting because somehow > > > > in their heads they draw a parallel to abortion. It really should be > > > > private. So it is really the case of 2 parents who can't accept the > > > > fact that their little girl is gone. And even above that they can't > > > > respect her ADULT wishes of never wanting that to happen to her. > > > > > > > > BTW guys if i ever die and for some reason my living will was not > > > > executed (because the govt started second guessing us to if we really > > > > meant it) please point them to this thread so they can see i want to > > > > have my plug pulled if i can't speak for myself. *shrugs* > > > > > > > > Sucky case and its sucky that the republicans are taking this on > > > > because they think the democrats have a weak case. And also because > > > > they want to screw with bill nelson. Anyone who plays politics with > > > > this shit should be shot. Any republican any democrat whoever tries to > > > > use this crap as a political goldmine needs to be drug out on their > > > > ass. > > > > > > > > But that's not what will happen people who believe its murder etc etc > > > > will rally around the republicans and say YES they are fighting for > > > > this poor innocent woman. That is horsecrap, they don't give a flying > > > > feather about her, especially since she can't vote :>. > > > > > > > > I have a prediction where this will go. The us govt tries to step its > > > > nose into peoples lives too far the supreme court will get involved > > > > and overrule the law for whatever reason and she will die. EVENTUALLY > > > > but she will die. Maybe the republicans will even go for a > > > > consitutional amendment if it gets overruled. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:5:151086 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:5 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
