ok, fair enough, though when I have heard the phrase "my baby" applied to a schoolaged child in the past it has always been a black mother. There is always the possibility of error when you read between the lines. I guess a lot depends on the spirit in which it was done, and as a means of documenting a problem it might be the only thing the school can think of, I guess... going by what the state's attorney said though, that didn't sound like th ecase. Maybe you just think this is normal because you live in Florida too?
Dana On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 07:06:53 -0500, Bill Wheatley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I mean i can see how throwing shit all over the place can be > considered not going along with the program. But i can also see it as > a kid who has never been properly disciplined. Or maybe the kid has a > problem that needs to be figured out and the mom isn't doing a good > job of figuring it out. I think anytime property damage comes into > play the police should be there the police have to document it. The > school will need documentation of it when it tries to sue the parents > who will probably try to get out of paying the damages. > > And i'm not going to be so quick to assume the kids black, i mean i've > seen some stupid ass white people who think their kid is the second > coming. Friend of a friend of mine is 17 and hes not going to graduate > because his dipshit mother wouldn't hold him back in class. When he > was in elementary school and all the way through high school the > schools have told her that her kid needs to be held back because hes > slow. Her response was: "That's going to hurt my baby being without > his friends". So i won't jump to conclusions about color of the kid. > > > On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 16:40:46 -0600, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Well in the stories I looked at, it looked to me like it was the > > school the kid needed to be protected from. The cops, my god. Behavior > > problem or not. > > > > Reading between the lines, the child seems to be black and not going > > along with the program for institutionalization that prevails in inner > > city schools. I guarantee that if a child had acted like this in an > > affluent area the school would not have called the police, > > > > Dana > > > > > > On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 17:29:07 -0500, Ray Champagne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Calling the cops does seem a little extreme, but think of it this way: if > > > they had to call the cops once b/c of her misbehavior, then this is even > > > more hard evidence that the mother is not fit to be one, and will help > > > child welfare with their case.... > > > > > > At 05:24 PM 3/21/2005, you wrote: > > > >The cops, Bill? The cops? What are they going to do, lock her up with > > > >the local child molesters? If the child is that big a handful there is > > > >something wrong and she needs treatment. If the mother won't get it > > > >it's time to call child welfare. But the cops? Let's get a grip. > > > > > > > >Dana > > > > > > > > > > > >On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 16:23:44 -0500, Bill Wheatley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >wrote: > > > > > I don't know if they didn't already try that. If the mothers not going > > > > > to do her job and discipline her child and teach her that behaviour is > > > > > not acceptable then i could see why they would call the cops. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 11:46:48 -0600, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > I have to admit that the quote is highly suggestive :) nonetheless > > > > > > I'd > > > > > > withdraw my child too under the circumstances. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if the child is a problem and/or troubled, there are more > > > > > > approriate solutions than the police. She is five for chrissakes. > > > > > > How > > > > > > about a referral to counseling, family counseling if appropriate, > > > > > > suspension, or a call to CYFD if the mother in fact seems to be the > > > > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 12:05:40 -0500, Bill Wheatley > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > Dana read this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.local10.com/education/4298451/detail.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No charges were filed and the girl went home with her mother, who > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > her daughter will not return. In her words, "They set my baby up." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does that quote from the mother let you figure out why this kid > > > > > > > couldn't control herself? A disruptive child should not be in > > > > > > > school. > > > > > > > I don't care how old the kid is. If the kid is old enough to know > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > to act like a jackass then its old enough to be taught a lesson. > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > bet a ride in a police cruiser will help especially since this > > > > > > > lady > > > > > > > sounds like a world class mother. She sounds like an unfit mother > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > a mother who can not control her child. At 5 sure i got > > > > > > > rambunchus but > > > > > > > never in school. I think we're in a time where parents don't know > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > to control their kids and need to start watching supernanny > > > > > > > (which is > > > > > > > on tonight 10pm on ABC btw..go go nanny jo). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you something though if i had done that as a child my > > > > > > > mother would have made me regret it and it would never have > > > > > > > happened > > > > > > > again. And my child will NEVER do that more then onces because > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > will learn they are in trouble. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As a parent i have always gone about it the same way as my > > > > > > > parents. If > > > > > > > an adult came to my parents and said i did something wrong it was > > > > > > > believe the adult first. That is the way it is for me as well. I > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > always (in most cases) take the word of an adult over my children. > > > > > > > That is how the world used to be. Parents were responsible and > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > did not allow that to happen. Today parents want to be friends > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > their kids. I don't care if my kids hate my guts and for awhile > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > did but they realize i did what i did because i loved them and > > > > > > > cared > > > > > > > about them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Myself as a child i never lied much to my parents and never about > > > > > > > something big because they would always find out. And my > > > > > > > punishment > > > > > > > would be alot worse that way for lieing. One day i walked into a > > > > > > > friends house using his key when he wasnt home. I just wanted to > > > > > > > play > > > > > > > his nintendo but his dad came home and i left. He told me you > > > > > > > better > > > > > > > tell your mother before i do lol. I DID i came right home and mom > > > > > > > knew > > > > > > > right away something was wrong. I told her it was hard and i was > > > > > > > scared but i told her. She was pissed but she would have been alot > > > > > > > more pissed if it came from my friends father instead of me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So back to the little 5 year old heavyweight. The kid has a > > > > > > > history of > > > > > > > being a violent kid and after you tell the kids parents time and > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > again about what the kid did and the parent just makes excuses and > > > > > > > doesn't fix the problem then its time to get the police involved. > > > > > > > Maybe the police will have better luck. Maybe the kid will think > > > > > > > ok if > > > > > > > i act like a shit my mom won't stop me but i'll have to get pulled > > > > > > > away by the police again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remember dana (and i dont mean this to be insulting) everyone > > > > > > > can't be > > > > > > > as good a mother as you. Some moms suck. Maybe you have too much > > > > > > > faith > > > > > > > in the fact that being a parent makes people able to handle their > > > > > > > kids > > > > > > > or at least take responsiblity for them. I think many parents > > > > > > > suck and > > > > > > > things like this happen. I mean sure i might have thought it was a > > > > > > > little heavy handed but to hear the lady say "THEY SET MY BABY UP" > > > > > > > thats just horseshit. That is probably the stupidest thing i had > > > > > > > heard > > > > > > > all day that day when i read this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 14:31:27 -0600, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I've used the wrap hold myself. Lara used to regularly throw > > > > > > > > fits but > > > > > > > > always over some preceived unfairness such as bedtime. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't really have enough information either. However, if the > > > > > > > > police > > > > > > > > had previously been called for this child I don't find it > > > > particularly > > > > > > > > astounding that she might become hysterical on being threatened > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that you might well have to restrain the child and that > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > mother might not want to recognize a definite behavior problem. > > > > > > > > That > > > > > > > > kind of thinking definitely exists and I have seen plenty of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But here is the crux of the matter for me. We have on the one > > > > > > > > side a > > > > > > > > five-year-old child. We have on the other an entire school of > > > > > > > > adults > > > > > > > > supposedly trained in dealing with children. And the best thing > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > adults came up with, between them all, was to bring in men with > > > > > > > > guns > > > > > > > > and handcuffs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bra fucking vo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 01:30:20 -0500, Jim Davis > > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: Dana [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 10:34 PM > > > > > > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: You know it's been a tough day at kindergarten > > > > when ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oh come on though this child is 5. And she refused to play a > > > > game with > > > > > > > > > > jelly beans. You best believe I'd be upset too if my child > > > > were put in > > > > > > > > > > handcuffs over something like that. Throwing stuff in a > > > > > > > > > > trash > > > > can ok, > > > > > > > > > > we are talking behavior problems sure! What happened to > > > > timeout and > > > > > > > > > > the principal's office! The lunatics are running the asylum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't read why she was in trouble in the first place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I do think you're being a bit disingenuous - she not only > > > > "threw stuff > > > > > > > > > trash can". She hit, repeatedly, several people, threw things > > > > and had > > > > > > > > > (reportedly) nearly an hour to calm down. This was also not > > > > the first time > > > > > > > > > that the police were required to calm the child. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The child WAS in a timeout in the assistant principles office > > > > > > > > > - > > > > then she > > > > > > > > > began hitting and kicking the assistant principle after > > > > throwing things from > > > > > > > > > her desk. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Although she was five I also remember that she was over 4' > > > > > > > > > tall > > > > - that's a > > > > > > > > > sizable five-year old. She could very well do some damage > > > > > > > > > (ask > > > > a five year > > > > > > > > > old to punch or kick your hand as hard as they can sometime - > > > > kids can be > > > > > > > > > amazingly strong). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Impulse control and violent rage are only slightly less > > > > dangerous in > > > > > > > > > children than they are in adults. If the police officers felt > > > > they could be > > > > > > > > > injured (a very real possibility even with so young a child) > > > > > > > > > or > > > > that the > > > > > > > > > child could injure herself then I feel they were well within > > > > their rights to > > > > > > > > > restrain her. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also let's be clear: restraining a child is not an easy thing > > > > > > > > > - > > > > even one > > > > > > > > > that young. Professionals generally use a wrap-technique: > > > > > > > > > from > > > > behind hold > > > > > > > > > the child's opposite wrists and wrap their arms across their > > > > body. Then sit > > > > > > > > > down (so they can't kick you) and lean back (so it's more > > > > difficult to > > > > > > > > > head-butt you). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This pretty much impossible to do safely in a car (it was in > > > > the car that > > > > > > > > > the child's legs were restrained after she refused to stop > > > > kicking). Even > > > > > > > > > in this position the child can still squirm and either break > > > > free (which > > > > > > > > > usually leads to a punch) or potentially injure themselves or > > > > > > > > > you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Also, as an aside: it's always taught to restrain the child > > > > until they're > > > > > > > > > calm for more than 60 seconds. Many parents go into a fit > > > > > > > > > when > > > > a caregiver > > > > > > > > > refuses to release their child upon demand - but a good > > > > caregiver will wait > > > > > > > > > and ensure that the child is calm enough to release.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Without more facts I won't say anybody is at fault, but I can > > > > definitely see > > > > > > > > > how the situation could have escalated to the point it did > > > > > > > > > with > > > > nobody BEING > > > > > > > > > at fault. I've been in similar situations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In both cases that I was injured by children (one girl punch > > > > > > > > > me > > > > in the face > > > > > > > > > and one 10 year-old slashed my arm with a bread knife) the > > > > > > > > > kids > > > > were still > > > > > > > > > enrolled in public school - on the cusp to be sure, but still > > > > in school. > > > > > > > > > Many schools are actually much better than people give them > > > > credit for and > > > > > > > > > will put up with disruptive kids longer than most private > > > > schools would. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No parent likes to think that their child can be dangerous and > > > > I've yet to > > > > > > > > > see a parent pleased when they hear that their child has been > > > > restrained. > > > > > > > > > However sometimes its required to keep the child from hurting > > > > themselves or > > > > > > > > > others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jim Davis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:5:151576 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:5 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
