Anyway... haven't slept in 24 hours... gottaaa sleeeep talk next time
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 6:55 PM > Subject: RE: They rule > > > > Interesting graphics. But why does it matter? > > > > H. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Benjamin Falloon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 11:27 AM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: They rule > > > > > > With recent discussion concerning corporate responsibilities, I think > people > > might be interested in this. It was made by Josh On of futurefamers. > > > > I first saw it a Fresh Conference in Sydney... > > great site... very timely > > http://www.theyrule.net/ > > > > Benjamin > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Benjamin Falloon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 6:19 AM > > Subject: Re: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > > > > see my last post beth. > > > I'm not holding any grudges... > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Fleischer, Beth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 5:11 AM > > > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > > > > > > > Well, actually Benjamin, we already had this discussion. Since > neither > > > > of > > > > you is interested in actually listening to what other folks have to > > > > say, and > > > > you keep resorting to personal insults, there is no point in > continuing > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Benjamin Falloon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 2:26 PM > > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > > Subject: Re: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Congrulations Beth, > > > > > > > > > > > > You should print up some stickers. Maybe a badge or two. Run > > > > > > a campain. Just > > > > > > don't bother with real discussion. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Fleischer, Beth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 4:14 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Howard has hit it on the head here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > According to YOU gary, anyone who believes that the US has > > > > > > a right to > > > > > > > military action in Afghanistan is a war monger who wants to > > > > > > kill all of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > afghan people, particularly the women and children. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its YOU who sees this in black and white, not us. I > > > > > > personally resent > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > called a war monger - it makes me very angry. I think it > > > > > > makes other > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > here angry as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 10:08 PM > > > > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gary, first off, I didn't attack anybody and I don't > > > > > > appreciate being > > > > > > > > generalized in with these others you lump me in with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that many, many people do what you say -- you don't > > > > agree > > > > > > > with XYZ > > > > > > > > so you must be anti-American. I've had the same thing done to > > > > > > > myself. > > > > > > > > But > > > > > > > > I wasn't calling anybody anti-American. And if you read > > > > > > my posts in > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > series carefully, you'll see I made it clear what I was > saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Boiling down is a bit of a clich�, but it's a valid > > > > > intellectual > > > > > > > argument. > > > > > > > > All propositions, if valid, can be "boiled down" to basic, > > > > > > > understandable > > > > > > > > terms. Sometimes, only when we strip away a lot of verbiage > do > > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > understand what we ourselves are saying. I was hoping to > > > > > > point out to > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > particular individual that maybe what he was saying wasn't > > > > really > > > > > > > what he > > > > > > > > intended, or if it was what he intended, it wasn't very > savory. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On the flip side, I also see a lot of -- and I feel like > > > > > > I'm getting > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > from you and Benjamin -- if you don't agree with me, you > > > > > > are either a > > > > > > > > boob-tube zombie or a neo-Nazi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's very easy to label people. It means you don't need > > > > > > to examine > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > position for any possible validity. For example, those > > > > > > who call you > > > > > > > > anti-American because you don't support (supposedly) military > > > > > > > tribunals, > > > > > > > > give you an excuse not to examine any arguments in favor > > > > > > of military > > > > > > > > tribunals (and they are numerous; if it wasn't so late I > > > > > > would list > > > > > > > them > > > > > > > > now -- maybe tomorrow evening). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am also bothered by your statement: "What has the War In > > > > > > > Afghanistan > > > > > > > > (America's Next War, ad infinitum)... done so far? We really > > > > > don't > > > > > > > know. > > > > > > > > Sure, there are some women without birquas(sp) on. And > > > > > > some men have > > > > > > > > shaved > > > > > > > > beards. But have we actually stopped terrorism > > > > > > > > at all?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you expect? Terrorism to be wiped out in two > > > > > > months? Really? > > > > > > > > Honestly? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have made tremendous progress in a very short amount of > time > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > Afghanistan. The war has advanced faster than I ever > > > > > > imagine, even > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > factoring in our military superiority. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Haven't you been listening -- this "war" will take years. > > > > > > It's only > > > > > > > > logical > > > > > > > > that it would. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Almost certainly, America will be attacked again. So why be > > > > > > > surprised at > > > > > > > > suicide bombers in Israel. Hell, we have hardly even focused > > > > > much > > > > > > > > attention > > > > > > > > on that problem yet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, just what are your expectations? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: Gary P. McNeel, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 10:37 PM > > > > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whether Howard meant to do this intentionally or not, this is > a > > > > > > > common > > > > > > > > tool > > > > > > > > in American media (on both sides), maybe in others. > > > > > > "Boiling it down" > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > oversimplify complex issues and make them seem out of > > > > > > context. Watch > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > O'Reilly, he is a master at this. It is a common tool. We are > > > > > > > increasingly > > > > > > > > being taught to NOT be skeptical of our leaders and their > > > > > > agendas or > > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > > afraid to question their actions for fear of a personal > attack. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been attacked in here for my same views. This type > > > > > > of attack > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > used > > > > > > > > by McCarthy and Reagan. "If you don't agree with us, you > > > > > > must not be > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > us > > > > > > > > and you must agree with the other side." It is happening > > > > > > in the news > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > politics everyday in America. It happens in this group. Don't > > > > > > > support the > > > > > > > > war? You must be anti-American (re: Beth saying I should leave > > > > > > > America > > > > > > > > because I exercise the very rights I and others have served in > > > > > the > > > > > > > armed > > > > > > > > forces to protect). Think maybe the way America has > > > > > > exploited other > > > > > > > > countries and pissed some people off? You must be > > > > > > un-American. Think > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > Attorney General is a right-wing, neo-Nazi sympathizer > > > > > > (see his past > > > > > > > > writings and remarks)? Think these new tribunals and > > > > anti-terror > > > > > > > > legislation > > > > > > > > are knee-jerk? You must be anti-American. "Get with the > program > > > > > > > soldier" > > > > > > > > ("FMJ"). Who's side are you on? Etc. Etc. No real effort > > > > > > is made to > > > > > > > > understand the other side of the argument, just attack > > > > > > the arguer (ad > > > > > > > > hominem). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What has the War In Afghanistan (America's Next War, ad > > > > > > infinitum)... > > > > > > > done > > > > > > > > so far? We really don't know. Sure, there are some women > > > > without > > > > > > > > birquas(sp) > > > > > > > > on. And some men have shaved beards. But have we actually > > > > stopped > > > > > > > > terrorism > > > > > > > > at all? Have we helped unleash a civil war? Laid the > > > > > > ground for one? > > > > > > > After > > > > > > > > the attacks in Israel, I would say no. In a year or two, when > > > > the > > > > > > > > political > > > > > > > > capital of Afghanistan has been spent and we realize what > > > > > > the war is > > > > > > > > costing, people will go back to watching "news" of OJ or > > > > > > endless talk > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > some other trivial subject (Condit comes to mind or > > > > > > sports). I think > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > are more sports channels than "news" channels. Feed the > > > > > > distractions. > > > > > > > > Opium > > > > > > > > for the masses. Cheap to make and people will pay a > > > > > > fortune for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW - I have heard zero on the news about the cost, and I > > > > > > am talking > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > nightly or daily news, not some obscure web source I have to > > > > > track > > > > > > > down, I > > > > > > > > am talking what most Americans will see. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I am tired. Good night. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: Benjamin Falloon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 1:04 AM > > > > > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you feel the need to "boil down" my statements? I > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > doubt it was > > > > > > > > > an honest attempt on your part, but why is it nessasary? In > > > > > your > > > > > > > case it > > > > > > > > > seems your 'honest' attempt at boiling down my statements > was > > > > > > > intended > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > your then to manipulate my statements to gain support from > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > members on > > > > > > > > > this board and discredit my original intentions. In > > > > > > short, to put > > > > > > > words > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > my mouth. Nothing in my posts are indicated my > > > > > > agreeing/condoning > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > taliban, yet you sarcasically impied this with your post > > > > along > > > > > > > > > with labeling > > > > > > > > > my words "liberal mantra". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see a distinct difference between news and truth or > > > > > 'reality'. > > > > > > > > > If you take > > > > > > > > > one of my previous metaphors, truth (the ingrediant) is > > > > > > sugar, but > > > > > > > coke > > > > > > > > > (corporate news) is not sugar, it may be based on > > > > > > sugar, but there > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > nothing natural or real about it. It's a consumable > > > > commodity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my objection put simply. I do condone the > sterotyping > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > Palastinians into "American hating terrorists" by people who > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > the 'street > > > > > > > > > celebration' footage as an example. This is a gross > > > > > > generalisation > > > > > > > > > equivelent to called all americans "fat fast food > > > > > > addicted ignorant > > > > > > > > > war-loving facists". Neither of these two description > > > > > > are fair and > > > > > > > > > demonstrate radical ignorance. The corporate news is in part > > > > > > > > > responsible for > > > > > > > > > this ignorance. This is my objection. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Benjamin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:52 PM > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears that you want to turn an honest attempt to > > > > > > boil down > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > statements to their most basic terms (and give you a > > > > > > chance to > > > > > > > > respond > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > correct any misunderstanding) as an attack. I wasn't > > > > > attacking > > > > > > > > > you. I was > > > > > > > > > > attacking the idea that we shouldn't draw conclusion when > > > > > > > > > presented with, > > > > > > > > > > what even you described as factual, news accounts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see you trying to play both sides of the fence -- > > > > > > the news is > > > > > > > > biased, > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > it's factual. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can't have it both ways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As a journalist, I also take offense at your > > > > narrow-sighted, > > > > > > > > uninformed > > > > > > > > > view > > > > > > > > > > of how a news operation works. It's the old thing -- > > > > > > people who > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > > to hear the truth blame the messenger. And then deride any > > > > > one > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > says, > > > > > > > > > > "Hey, maybe it's not the messenger's fault." It's a very > > > > > > > convenient > > > > > > > > > position > > > > > > > > > > to be in -- you can cast aspersions all around > > > > > > without ever being > > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > > > > position to honestly face your own biases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: Benjamin Falloon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 10:28 PM > > > > > > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You read into my words through your own stereotypical view > > > > of > > > > > > > > > non-mainstream > > > > > > > > > > thinking... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My original post concerned the discussion surrounding the > > > > so > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > 'celebrating Palastinians'. My critisism was limited to a > > > > > > > discussion > > > > > > > > > > concerning oppinions on this footage. Having said > > > > > > that, I don't > > > > > > > > welcome > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > putting words in my mouth concerning my position on > > > > > > the Taliban > > > > > > > > > and their > > > > > > > > > > oppressive regime. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You've attempted to discredit my criticism of corporate > > > > owned > > > > > > > media by > > > > > > > > > > insinuating that I support the Taliban because I mistrust > > > > the > > > > > > > news. > > > > > > > > Your > > > > > > > > > > conclusions are weak. You can label my words as > > > > > > "liberal mantra" > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > wish, but in my oppinion this does your position no > > > > > > credit as it > > > > > > > > implies > > > > > > > > > > you're more interested in labels and stereotypes then a > > > > > > > > > discussion of any > > > > > > > > > > real depth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Keep watching television Howard. It appears to do you a > lot > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Benjamin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:17 PM > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't want to misstate what you're saying, but let me > > > > > boil > > > > > > > down > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > what I hear you saying: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) The news may be factually correct, though the > > > > > > nuance may be > > > > > > > off > > > > > > > > > because > > > > > > > > > > > of entertainment values -- therefore, the "real" > > > > > > news is some > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > > obscured. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Because the "news" has been remanufactured to a > > > > degree, > > > > > > > > > and no longer > > > > > > > > > > > reflects the raw, unvarnished truth, it is offensive to > > > > > base > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > conclusions > > > > > > > > > > > this "newstainment." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am I understanding you correctly? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, we should not condemn the Taliban for > beating, > > > > > > > stoning > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > murdering women because, by golly, we learned about it > on > > > > a > > > > > > > > > network news > > > > > > > > > > > show. And it was edited. And who knows what was left > out. > > > > A > > > > > > > Taliban > > > > > > > > > denial > > > > > > > > > > > maybe? Or possibly a Taliban apology ("We didn't > > > > > > mean to stone > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > women > > > > > > > > > > > to death -- the rock just slipped. Sorry.") > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is that really what you're saying. I mean, because > > > > > > that's what > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > hear > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > saying. And I find it pretty offensive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the facts are correct, it matters little how they are > > > > > > > > > delivered. And > > > > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > > > amount of political correctness (in this case, the > > > > liberal > > > > > > > > > mantra of we > > > > > > > > > > > shouldn't criticize other "cultures") can possibly > > > > > > justify what > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > Taliban > > > > > > > > > > > has done to women and dissenters within Afghanistan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: Benjamin Falloon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 9:18 PM > > > > > > > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beth, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not certain how you arrived at such an exaggerated > > > > > > > > > understanding of > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > original post. But allow me at least the > > > > > > oppertunity to expand > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > perspetive > > > > > > > > > > > before you sarcastically attack my posts once more, > > > > > > even though > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > original > > > > > > > > > > > post was not even address to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I may have refered to television (and this can be > > > > > > broadened to > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > corporately own/operated news service) as > > > > > > manufactured, but I > > > > > > > > > did not in > > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > > way insinuate that the 'stories' were myth. News > services > > > > > > > (mostly) > > > > > > > > > deliver > > > > > > > > > > > their content in a highly constructed way. News is like > > > > > coka > > > > > > > > > cola; coke > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > based on sugar, a 'real world' ingredient, just as the > > > > > > > "oppression > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > afghanistan women" may too be 'real world', but the end > > > > > > > > > result delivered > > > > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > > > > the news services is nothing 'natural'... it is a > > > > > > manufacured > > > > > > > > > construct > > > > > > > > > > > intentionally mixed to produce the desired effect. > > > > > > This is how > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > view > > > > > > > > > > > corporate news services. Most of what is aired looks no > > > > > > > > > different from, > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > indeed reflects the kind of news approach highlighted by > > > > > the > > > > > > > > nineties > > > > > > > > > film > > > > > > > > > > > "Wag the Dog". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Images are carefully selected, edited and cut with > > > > emotive > > > > > > > music and > > > > > > > > > > > commentry designed to promote a certain perspective. > > > > > Exactly > > > > > > > whose > > > > > > > > > > > perspective/interests/politics represented are beyond > the > > > > > > > > > reach of this > > > > > > > > > > > discussion, but the net effect of these kinds of > > > > > > presentations > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > all dissimilar to those effects achieved by the > > > > > > entertainment > > > > > > > > industry > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > whole. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > News is entertainment/entertainment is news. I find > > > > making > > > > > > > > judgements > > > > > > > > > upon > > > > > > > > > > > other peoples/cultures etc based on this kind of > > > > > information > > > > > > > > > offensive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I recall a previous post by Gary that brought up the > lack > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > true > > > > > > > > > > > investigative reporting in the main stream news. My > > > > > oppinion > > > > > > > > > on the news > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > an extension of this logic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Benjamin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Fleischer, Beth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Folks!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did you hear it! The oppression of afghanistan women > > > > is > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > myth, made > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > > > > > the media. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Benjamin, I heard about the plight of afghani > > > > > > women several > > > > > > > > > years ago > > > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > > > an afghan woman came to speak at a university. > > > > > > Did she make > > > > > > > it up > > > > > > > > > too? > > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > she in on the big media conspiracy? Were the stories > > > > she > > > > > > > told of > > > > > > > > > women > > > > > > > > > > > > being killed for walking down the street with a man > > > > whom > > > > > > > > > they weren't > > > > > > > > > > > > married to made up too? Were the stories of female > > > > > lawyers > > > > > > > > > and doctors > > > > > > > > > > > made > > > > > > > > > > > > up too? And she left afghanistan not because she > was > > > > > > > > > no > > > > > > > longer > > > > > > > > > > allowed > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > practice law there, but just to spread these lies > > > > > > about the > > > > > > > > > wonderful > > > > > > > > > > > > taliban rule? All those underground schools to > > > > > > teach girls > > > > > > > dont' > > > > > > > > > exist > > > > > > > > > > > > right - because under the taliban rule girls WERE > > > > > > allowed to > > > > > > > go to > > > > > > > > > > school? > > > > > > > > > > > > And all this information I received prior to 9/11 - it > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > made up for > > > > > > > > > > > WHAT > > > > > > > > > > > > REASON? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so, all the people in afghanistan listening to > > > > > > music again, > > > > > > > > shaving > > > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > > > > beards, taking off their masks, they weren't really > > > > > > > > > oppressed its just > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > media invention, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The western media is at best, extrodinatily > > > > > > limited in it's > > > > > > > > > > > representation > > > > > > > > > > > > > of 'real people' in the middle east (or media > > > > > > east as it's > > > > > > > > exists > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > us). > > > > > > > > > > > > > Furthermore, it's representation is more often > > > > > > designed to > > > > > > > > promote > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > kind > > > > > > > > > > > > > of discussion by manufacture of 'stories' (one of > > > > these > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > celebrating Palistinians, another being the > > > > > > oppression of > > > > > > > women > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aphganistan for example). These stories are the > > > > > > developed > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > made > > > > > > > > > > self > > > > > > > > > > > > > referencial, repeated over and over by all media > > > > > outlets > > > > > > > > > until they > > > > > > > > > > > become > > > > > > > > > > > > > the measure of oppinion polls on presidencial > > > > > > popularity. > > > > > > > There > > > > > > > > > > simplify > > > > > > > > > > > > > polarize and synthasize politics and culture > > > > > > for the fast > > > > > > > food > > > > > > > > > culture > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > is America. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Michael Dinowitz" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 9:18 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem > :( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. There were a LOT more than 1 woman and 5 > > > > > > kids. There > > > > > > > were > > > > > > > > PA > > > > > > > > > > police > > > > > > > > > > > > > > taking camera's away from reporters to avoid the > > > > news > > > > > > > from it. > > > > > > > > > There > > > > > > > > > > > > > were > > > > > > > > > > > > > > letters of protest from the AP and Reuters over > it. > > > > I > > > > > > > > > know people > > > > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > > > > live > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in Israel and have first hand reports as do > > > > > > many others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. The rumor that it was old footage was debunked. > > > > It > > > > > > > > > started with > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > student in Argentina and spread. It was real > > > > footage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. I don't condemn any Palestinian for the actions > > > > of > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > truly > > > > > > > > > > sick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > people who take pride and happiness in the > > > > > > suffering of > > > > > > > > others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >As or your second quesion... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >First, that clip of a women dancing and five kids > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >clapping there hands, I wouldnt realy know > > > > > > how that is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >considred 'my people', last time i checked, the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Palestinian population was not reprented by a > > > > women > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >and 5 kids, and yes, a car passing by blowings > its > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >horn...Second, CNN, which first aired the clip, > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >and still is accused of airing an old clip which > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >taking during the Iraq war, except , sadly, no > > > > media > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >outlet would ever let the story run, nor deny or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >confirm the reports.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Now i dont know if that is right or wrong, I do > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >believe that YES, its very possible that there > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >exist a palestinian women who danced in the > > > > streets, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >and its so re-assuring that a camera somehow > > > > > > found her > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >dancing and aired her image, two hours after the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >incident.....I would think there would be more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >pressing issues at that time,but i guess a > > > > > > Palestinian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >women supposedly dancing in the streets of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Palestine,is more important than the those tens > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >thousands of casualties and the chaos that was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >happening here.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I guess the Palestinians where just about to > > > > > > get there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >independence and your blessings, and this women > > > > came > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >and screwed everything up for us!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >BTW, the women was kinda a heavy set, so i > wouldnt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >realy call it "Jumping up for Joy", the poor old > > > > > lady > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >could barely walk, but she was eating sweets, > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >does probably translate to her as jumping up for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >joy!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
