Above all, it is usually a belief held by someone who is not poor and perhaps has never met anyone who was. The people who *used* to be poor, or poorer, well, you know what they say about reformed smokers, it's sort of the same thing. For what it's worth, my father's people were working-class and probably borderline underclass. They were part of an Irish coal-mining population that all lived in council houses, and got their pay in little envelopes of cash. He emigrated becuase his options in life in Scotland were the army and the coal mines and he chose none of the above. He became a respected journalist without ever graduating from high school. We came to the States when he was assigned to the Washington DC bureau of a chain of Canadian newspapers, and we lived in Potomac. For those not familiar with DC, that's a very affluent suburb. He attributed his success to the fact that an editor gave him a chance. I do think that talent and determination played into this, but perhaps might not have sufficed without the opportunity. My mother's family was pretty solidly middle-class, but that's Canada and a little different. Myself, I've done the starving student thing, the single mother thing and the technical support thing. I did not begin to have an adequate standard of living until I decided to make my own rules, rather than trying to play the glass ceiling thing too. As a result I am pretty much exactly where I want to be and wish I had made the break sooner. I am not sure how typical I am, though. I left Canada over the vision there of government as nanny. I am no more fond of the big corporation as nanny. I don't trust a big employer to look out for my interests any more than I trust the government, never did and especially don't post-Enron. That's me. Along the way, if I can help smooth a paradigm shift, I try to take the opportunity to do so, and I think those opportunities present themselves more often than we realize. Dana
On 9/25/05, s. isaac dealey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> Ike wrote: > >> Various lobying for a specific kind of predominantly > >> urban middle-class lifestyle has resulted > > > Interesting point, but now you're really talking about > > democracy rather than capitalism. That is, you can > > choose an income level that supports your life > > preferences, but local laws may prevent you from > > fulfilling it. > > > Of course you could always choose enough income to buy > > your exceptions or move to an area that permitted it, but > > you choose not to. So really it still comes down to a > > choice which you're given. > > That's not true either... because not everyone has the luxury of choosing > how much money they make, and if you don't have some minimal amount of cash > (above the poverty line) it becomes much more difficult to move to another > area. Sure, you could drop everything you have and hitch-hike and then be > stuck homeless in a new area in worse shape than you were before... so if > you can't get out of poverty where you are, then moving isn't liable to help > either. > > I'm actually a good example of how difficult it is to pass the poverty > line... My parents were wealthy but pissed it all away. I made some mistakes > early (got married, had kids) and haven't had the opportunity to go to > college even though my family could have afforded to support me and pay my > tuition. (Among my mistakes early on included having attempted to get a > better education and failed when I wasn't able to both work and feed my > daughter and attend school and I ended up queering my financial aid.) I was > below the poverty level in my early adulthood and with plenty of > intelligence and a RAGING desire to not be under the poverty level, still > was not able to breach it. I got lucky (that's it, no drive or determination > issues) got hired for tech support at HP and subsequently at MCI/Worldcom > where I picked up CF. If it hadn't been for those 2 strokes of luck (and > yes, I do believe luck was the deciding factor) I would probably be flipping > burgers today. Since then I've held on to my career more or less by the skin > of my teeth through my divorce (still pending) and simultaneous economic > depression. I've known a number of people whom I consider to be rather > intelligent, several of them who have college degrees who ended up flipping > burgers or doing technical support (and frequently having their hours cut so > that it didn't matter that they earned more than min. wage per hour) in > their late 20's or 30's. Saying that capitalism gives everyone the > opportunity to do whatever they want is a gigantic steaming load of BS > propoganda. > > Yes the previous argument about gov't regulations is more or less about > democracy rather than capitalism... I say more or less because I'd venture > to say it's really pretty well proven that our country is not "for the > people by the people"... It's really "for the wealthy by the wealthy" as a > result of capitalist forces which not only allow but encourage corporate > lobbying. You can say that these regulations are an issue purely of > democracy, but imo it's really just lip service. > > Sorry if it seems like I've been "attacking" you... The subject of > voluntarism and capitalism (this concept that less fortunate people want to > be less fortunate) has always been something that gets my dander up. > > > s. isaac dealey 954.522.6080 > new epoch : isn't it time for a change? > > add features without fixtures with > the onTap open source framework > > http://www.fusiontap.com > http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Now thereâs a better way to fax. eFax makes it possible to use your existing email account to send and receive faxes. Try eFax free. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=63 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:5:174936 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:5 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
