We'll just have to disagree here. I agree about Will and Kristol though. I enjoy reading both of them, but I don't read them as often as I should.
Just a side note, Kristol was Keyes' roommate at Harvard and worked for Bill Bennet and they (Bennet and Keyes) have the same moral founding for their conservative beliefs so I don't think that Kristol is too far from their way of thinking. Be careful about holding up Kristol as a poster boy of conservatism and then lambaste the Republican party. He is in deep in the Party. Now to me, that's good because he represents to me what the party should be but it seemed like you tolerate the Republican party because it's the closest thing out there to conservatism (well there's the constitutional party, but I'm too familiar with the inner workings, but I've heard some conservatives talk about them as an alternative) but I may be wrong on that. I totally disagree about Keyes and Thomas. Thomas is a hack (whose ideologies are based in bitterness) and Keyes is well educated, well spoken, and firmly builds his arguments based on certain principles and logic which I happen to align with. Newt did what he had to do to get republicans in control. I said I didn't care for his conduct in his personal life because it did not align with what he talked about but I think that his views of smaller government, giving states back the control that they deserve, and pushing a lot of the social issues back down to the local levels where they could be better handled is right on the mark. I also believed that Gingrinch did a really good job of educating people about what conservatives stood for and wasn't afraid to say it which I think a lot of the politicos are afraid of which is why they waver on a lot of things. Michael Corrigan Programmer Endora Digital Solutions www.endoradigital.com 630/942-5211 x-134 ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Community Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:29 AM Subject: RE: Ouch Well, I have to disagree with several of your assessments. Newt raised tons of money for right-wingers across the board. He did a great deal to build up the right wing in his party. That pretty much condemns him right there. He also preached a morality that makes him look like a hypocrite in light of his shameful divorce (not just any divorce, but a particularly nasty one) and his messing around on his second wife. As for Rush -- he's the poster child for the right wing. I don't see how you can lament the passing of true conservatism and then uphold an appreciation for the BIGGEST ENEMY of conservatism. If there was ever a big government Republican, it would be Rush. Not to mention he's a liar, a fabricator and every bit as slippery as Bill Clinton. There is nothing admirable about Rush. I can't see any ideological difference between Alan Keyes and Cal Thomas. Noonan and Novak are good. Bill Buckley is really an important conservative thinker, but I use the term loosely. He tends to be a bit illogical in his reasoning at times, but I love his magazine. Can't say I'm familiar with the other names you list. H. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:55 AM To: CF-Community Subject: Re: Ouch Alright Gary, the gloves come off. How dare you question me...ME!!!! ;-) I actually like Newt. I really think that he got unfairly ripped apart by the media (which I have my ideas about, but we both know how THAT would go ;-). I've heard him speak and I think he's got a some really great ideas. He did have his personal battles (the divorce) which disappointed me, but I think that the good outweighs the bad. <puts back on old plastic Bears helmet and awaits muffin volley> In his defense on that issue, he never took his positions based on a higher moral ground like an Alan Keyes, but from a more logical perspective. As for the right wingers taking over the party, that has been disappointing. I don't think that they've necessarily taken over, but there is huge support from the Christian right who turn out on election day in droves and politicians are aware of that and cater to that. I hope that it will turn back around. The democrats were once conservative and have made a drastic shift to the left. I've read a few of JFK's speeches and they were very conservative in nature. My father has told me that he voted democrat until the 70's when he switched over to republicans when the party (dem) went left. The whole right wing/conservative ideologies kind of blurring together I chalk up to the media. They hold up 'right wingers' as being the voice of the conservative movement and I think that it's deliberate. They lumped Newt in with these clowns when the conservatives took control of congress back in '94 and I always thought it to be disingenuous. Conservatives are painted as being racist, hating the homeless, wanting to destroy the environment, sexist, homophobic, etc. and it just simply isn't true. But people actually believe that though and it really bothers me. I really like Rush Limbaugh and I like his brother David even more. I read Bill Buckley's column as often as I can. I also read Walter Williams, Michael Kelly, Alan Keyes, Bob, Novak, Peggy Noonan, and Chris Matthews (although he is not a conservative, but I like his take on things) on a regular basis. I think that these people best represent conservatism. Not the Cal Thomas', Sean Hannity's, etc. I like Hannity, but he gets a little too vile for me. I also really admire VP Cheney. Someone call 911, I think Gary's having a heart attack!! :-) Michael Corrigan Programmer Endora Digital Solutions www.endoradigital.com 630/942-5211 x-134 ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary P. McNeel, Jr. To: CF-Community Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:19 AM Subject: RE: Ouch Note for Beth - this is a general reply, following the thread, not an 'attack' on someone, especially Michael. Note 2 for Beth - this is the last time I type this warning. People will just have to be confused and angry with me in the future if it is not clear. ;) I agree. Which leads me to the question, How did conservatives let the right wingers usurp the party? This has been going on since the Moral Majority days of 30 years ago. Ralph Reed stayed in power for years and years. People like Gingrich ("Mr. Integrity") were easily voted into office. Are there conservatives anymore? How has the right shifted so far to the right, like right of right? Homer: "That team sure sucked Moe. I've seen some teams that suck, but that team was the suckiest team that ever sucked". (Paraphrased). -Gary > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:33 AM > To: CF-Community > Subject: Re: Ouch > > > Well said!! > > Michael Corrigan > Programmer > Endora Digital Solutions > www.endoradigital.com > 630/942-5211 x-134 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: CF-Community > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:07 PM > Subject: RE: Ouch > > > Correction, a leading light of the right-wing movement. > > There's a world of difference between right-wingers and conservatives. > > H. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 1:55 PM > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: Ouch > > > During the election six years ago Virginia had the misfortune of > having > Oliver North run against the incumbent. Watching North out and out lie > about > what happened, and also lie about having been convicted was very > revealing. > and he is considered to be one of the leading lights of the > conservative > movement. > > larry > > -- > Larry C. Lyons > ColdFusion/Web Developer > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer > EBStor.com > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204 > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795 > tel: (703) 393-7930 > fax: (703) 393-2659 > Web: http://www.ebstor.com > http://www.pacel.com > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done. > -- > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gary P. McNeel, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 4:52 PM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: RE: Ouch > > > > > > I will never, ever forget this. While we are drinking a beer > > I will casually > > ask you about it. Then, when I get up off the floor, we can keep > > drinking. -Gary > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 9:17 AM > > > To: CF-Community > > > Subject: Re: Ouch > > > > > > > > > I've done the same thing. I blasted my father over the > > very same thing > > > an he got pissed!!! Called Ollie North a good American and > > all that. > > > Then he called me a commie. Gary will probably get a kick > > out of that > > > one eh? > > > > > > Sorry, I disagree. Just because he looked like a hard ass > > while doing > > > it (lying to congress) doesn't make it right. > > > > > > Michael Corrigan > > > Programmer > > > Endora Digital Solutions > > > www.endoradigital.com > > > 630/942-5211 x-134 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > To: CF-Community > > > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 12:23 AM > > > Subject: RE: Ouch > > > > > > > > > But, but, but ... > > > > > > All through the Clinton years, I heard all of these pious > > Republicans > > > blast > > > Clinton -- the same people who never said a bad word > > about Reagan or > > > Bush or > > > Nixon (going that far back). > > > > > > I don't like the double standard any more than you, but > > it isn't just > > > Clinton supporters, my friend. > > > > > > I once was talking to a guy who was blasting Clinton for > > being a liar. > > > I > > > knew he was a fan of Ollie North, so I said, "Here's your double > > > standard: > > > Ollie North lied to Congress. Clinton only lied on a > > deposition in a > > > civil > > > case." The guy went ballistic -- how dare I besmirch the name > of > > > Ollie > > > North! > > > > > > > > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 11:13 AM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: Re: Ouch > > > > > > You're right, if Reagan and his administration did illegal things, > > then > > they should be punished. That is not my point. I'm not > justifying > > the > > illegalities that happened during the Reagan administration, but > I'm > > sick of seeing people criticize him and not hold their beloved > Clinton > > to the same standards. > > > > Michael Corrigan > > Programmer > > Endora Digital Solutions > > www.endoradigital.com > > 630/942-5211 x-134 > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Maureen > > To: CF-Community > > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 1:05 PM > > Subject: Re: Ouch > > > > > > At 01:55 PM 12/13/01, Corrigan wrote: > > >Are you actually going to say that Bill Clinton didn't break > any > > laws, > > >didn't compromise our national secrets? Reagan is a saint next > to > > >Clinton!! > > > > Red-Herring alert! > > The fact that Clinton broke laws doesn't excuse that fact that > > Reagan > > did. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ _______ Your ad could be here. 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