Wow! No Jews. And they say we run the country. At 12:51 PM 2/18/02, you wrote: >> Well, I disagree that they aren't normal people. Few of them come from >> privileged backgrounds (as if that defines not-normal). Bush's cabinet is >> the most racially diverse in history. Many of the millionaires club are of >> the self-made type. > >Yep.... majority rich white males.... >Here are the stats: > >12 white males (13 if you include GW). >3 white females. >1 African American female. (although Rice isnt in this photo) >2 African American Males. >1 Asian female. >1 Asian Male. > >Benjamin > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 4:39 AM >Subject: RE: jihad for kids .. wheeee > > >> Well, I disagree that they aren't normal people. Few of them come from >> privileged backgrounds (as if that defines not-normal). Bush's cabinet is >> the most racially diverse in history. Many of the millionaires club are of >> the self-made type. >> >> If a poor person was on the cabinet, would he have his own self interest >at >> heart? >> >> It's hard to serve without totally removing self interest, isn't it? >> >> The most powerful people in Washington are always, whether GOP or Dem, >> always going to be people who got there through self interest. That's why >we >> have a system of checks and balances. >> >> H. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Will Swain [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 9:29 AM >> To: CF-Community >> Subject: RE: jihad for kids .. wheeee >> >> >> its not wrong per se. But you must agree that these people on the whole >will >> have absolutely no idea of the issues facing normal people. Also, the fact >> that they are so wealthy suggests to me that they might have their own >self >> interests at heart. >> >> will >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >> Sent: 18 February 2002 17:26 >> To: CF-Community >> Subject: RE: jihad for kids .. wheeee >> >> >> And this is wrong because? >> >> H. >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Benjamin Falloon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 9:19 AM >> To: CF-Community >> Subject: Re: jihad for kids .. wheeee >> >> >> I'd say the political system makes it difficult for a lot of Americans to >> even relate, let alone get good representation..... for example.... >> >> George W. and his cabinet.... >> >> (This was from Adbusters...) >> >> Question: There are nineteen members of the Bush Administration cabinet. >How >> many are millionaires? >> >> a) 5 >> b)10 >> c) 18 >> >> >> Answer: c) 18. And seven members of the cabinet are worth more than $10 >> Million. >> >> (I wonder if these people have a hard time relating to societies >> disadvantaged...) >> >> Benjamin >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Will Swain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 4:02 AM >> Subject: RE: jihad for kids .. wheeee >> >> >> > Fair point that we are talking about apples and pears maybe, but how is >> > alienation a choice on the part of the alienated? >> > >> > The political system is failing poeple if they feel alienated from it. >As >> > for your comment about not wanting everyone to vote, particularly less >> > educated poeple, I think that is a very very dangerous precedent to set >> for >> > obvious reasons. >> > >> > will >> > >> > by the way, I am thoroughly enjoying this debate. Thanks. >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >> > Sent: 18 February 2002 16:57 >> > To: CF-Community >> > Subject: RE: jihad for kids .. wheeee >> > >> > >> > Will Mugabe be elected in a free electoral system where every person >> > qualified (based on a neutral qualification standard, such as age) is >> > allowed to vote, to vote secretly, and choose between candidates of >> > different opinions/stances/agendas? >> > >> > If we're going to compare elections, let's be sure we're comparing >apples >> to >> > apples. >> > >> > As for America or Britain, alienation is a choice. A free choice. If >> people >> > choose not to vote, that has no bearing on the legitimacy of the >election. >> > Hell, it enhances it. >> > >> > H. >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Will Swain [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >> > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 8:33 AM >> > To: CF-Community >> > Subject: RE: jihad for kids .. wheeee >> > >> > >> > I'm questioning the democractic nature of the US political system, and >the >> > British one while I'm at it. I didn't think democracy was the voice of >> those >> > who don't feel so alienated by politics that they vote? Winning is the >> > mandate to rule you say? So when Mugabe wins that will be enough, he >will >> > have a mandate to rule? >> > >> > will >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >> > Sent: 18 February 2002 16:26 >> > To: CF-Community >> > Subject: RE: jihad for kids .. wheeee >> > >> > >> > Winning is the mandate to rule. In a representative government, that's >> all >> > you need. >> > >> > Getting a majority of the votes (in a three-way election) is irrelevant. >> > Getting a majority of all registered voters is even more irrelevant. >> > >> > I don't really get you're point, however. What does this have to do >with >> > democracies being careful? There is no democratic code that says all >> people >> > must vote. In fact, not voting is a form of voting. Furthermore, I >don't >> > want all people to vote. Too many people who are ill-informed vote >already >> > any way. Of course, that's their choice, but I don't believe democracy >> > suffers when people choose not to vote. The nice thing about a free >> society >> > is that you can choose not to participate in the civic process if that's >> > what floats your boat. People should be free to choose that option >without >> > being made out to be cretins. >> > >> > H. >> > >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Will Swain [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >> > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:25 AM >> > To: CF-Community >> > Subject: RE: jihad for kids .. wheeee >> > >> > >> > I see what you are saying but I do worry that there is a dangerous >> > undercurrent lurking in the background there. Like maybe we could just >ask >> > them what they think about it? Otherwise it is simply a case of a >dominant >> > culture imposing it's values on everyone else. Yes, it might be from the >> > best motivations, but I think you could see the arrogance there. >> > Furthermore, I think you are on very dangerous ground with your >assertion >> > that "A government that is formed from a mandate from the masses (and >not >> > from some farcical aquatic ceremony) is the only way to go." Again, >> imposing >> > a morality and world view on others. Who is to say that a benevolent >> > dictatorship is not a better way to live? >> > >> > Also, I think we who live in 'democratic' countries should be very >> careful. >> > After all, is it not true that less than half the population of the US >> voted >> > in the last election, and arguably less than half of those who did >> actually >> > voted for Bush? Hardly a mandate to rule? >> > >> > will >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Lon Lentz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >> > Sent: 15 February 2002 23:32 >> > To: CF-Community >> > Subject: RE: jihad for kids .. wheeee >> > >> > >> > >> > I will never accept the premise that "correct" and "right" are >> > subjective. They are not. >> > >> > Killing is not necessarily wrong. Murder is wrong. Completely >> > different. If killing is "wrong", then why do we hire "cops", give them >> > badges and guns, and allow them to "kill" in our name? Why do we let the >> > state "kill" in our name? Why do we let the US military "kill" in our >> > name? There is no subjectiveness here. There is only absolute. >> > >> > I am not in anyway trying to suggest that we shove our western ideals >> > down their throats. A government that is formed from a mandate from the >> > masses (and not from some farcical aquatic ceremony) is the only way to >> > go. That is absolute. However they choose to do it. >> > >> > Proper human behavior is right and just. No matter where you live. No >> > matter what religion you follow. No matter your ethnic background. >> > >> > Would you suggest that the female castrations that go on in Africa, >> > could in some way, be "right" or "correct" for those people? I don't >> > care what kind of society they have, that is wrong. >> > >> > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: chris.alvarado [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >> > > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 5:01 PM >> > > To: CF-Community >> > > Subject: Re: jihad for kids .. wheeee >> > > >> > > >> > > no I'm suggesting exactly what I stated. >> > > >> > > Absolutes are absolutely wrong. >> > > >> > > case in point: >> > > >> > > Killing is wrong. >> > > >> > > Killing in self defense, is that wrong? >> > > >> > > most people would tend to say no, if the choice is kill or be killed, >> > and >> > > that is the only way, then killing in self defense is not "wrong", >> > which >> > > completely contradicts the first statement: 'killing is wrong'. >> > Killing is >> > > killing no matter how pretty you try to paint it. >> > > >> > > "right" and "wrong" is all a matter of perception. >> > > >> > > believing that something is right or wrong does not make it so. >> > > >> > > I believe that the events that occurred on 9/11 and some of the events >> > > thereafter were "wrong" but that does not make it universally so. >> > > >> > > Who put you, or me for that matter in charge of dictating what is >> > right or >> > > wrong? >> > > >> > > Freedom is not just about living the way you want to live, it is >> > > about being >> > > able to also acknowledge the way others choose to live whether you >> > agree >> > > with it or not. >> > > >> > > Unconventional thought? perhaps, but this country's ideals were >> > founded on >> > > what was considered to be unconventional / 'unpopular' thinking. >> > > >> > > in short, what is right for you, may not be right for others, I'm >> > > not saying >> > > that about freedom or any one thing in particular. I'm saying, in >> > general. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> > ______________________________________________________________________ Macromedia ColdFusion 5 Training from the Source Step by Step ColdFusion http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201758474/houseoffusion
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