shadow govenment ;-) he he he ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Dinowitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 4:57 AM Subject: Re: jihad for kids .. wheeee
> Wow! No Jews. And they say we run the country. > > At 12:51 PM 2/18/02, you wrote: > >> Well, I disagree that they aren't normal people. Few of them come from > >> privileged backgrounds (as if that defines not-normal). Bush's cabinet is > >> the most racially diverse in history. Many of the millionaires club are of > >> the self-made type. > > > >Yep.... majority rich white males.... > >Here are the stats: > > > >12 white males (13 if you include GW). > >3 white females. > >1 African American female. (although Rice isnt in this photo) > >2 African American Males. > >1 Asian female. > >1 Asian Male. > > > >Benjamin > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 4:39 AM > >Subject: RE: jihad for kids .. wheeee > > > > > >> Well, I disagree that they aren't normal people. Few of them come from > >> privileged backgrounds (as if that defines not-normal). Bush's cabinet is > >> the most racially diverse in history. Many of the millionaires club are of > >> the self-made type. > >> > >> If a poor person was on the cabinet, would he have his own self interest > >at > >> heart? > >> > >> It's hard to serve without totally removing self interest, isn't it? > >> > >> The most powerful people in Washington are always, whether GOP or Dem, > >> always going to be people who got there through self interest. That's why > >we > >> have a system of checks and balances. > >> > >> H. > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Will Swain [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 9:29 AM > >> To: CF-Community > >> Subject: RE: jihad for kids .. wheeee > >> > >> > >> its not wrong per se. But you must agree that these people on the whole > >will > >> have absolutely no idea of the issues facing normal people. Also, the fact > >> that they are so wealthy suggests to me that they might have their own > >self > >> interests at heart. > >> > >> will > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >> Sent: 18 February 2002 17:26 > >> To: CF-Community > >> Subject: RE: jihad for kids .. wheeee > >> > >> > >> And this is wrong because? > >> > >> H. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Benjamin Falloon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 9:19 AM > >> To: CF-Community > >> Subject: Re: jihad for kids .. wheeee > >> > >> > >> I'd say the political system makes it difficult for a lot of Americans to > >> even relate, let alone get good representation..... for example.... > >> > >> George W. and his cabinet.... > >> > >> (This was from Adbusters...) > >> > >> Question: There are nineteen members of the Bush Administration cabinet. > >How > >> many are millionaires? > >> > >> a) 5 > >> b)10 > >> c) 18 > >> > >> > >> Answer: c) 18. And seven members of the cabinet are worth more than $10 > >> Million. > >> > >> (I wonder if these people have a hard time relating to societies > >> disadvantaged...) > >> > >> Benjamin > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Will Swain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 4:02 AM > >> Subject: RE: jihad for kids .. wheeee > >> > >> > >> > Fair point that we are talking about apples and pears maybe, but how is > >> > alienation a choice on the part of the alienated? > >> > > >> > The political system is failing poeple if they feel alienated from it. > >As > >> > for your comment about not wanting everyone to vote, particularly less > >> > educated poeple, I think that is a very very dangerous precedent to set > >> for > >> > obvious reasons. > >> > > >> > will > >> > > >> > by the way, I am thoroughly enjoying this debate. Thanks. > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >> > Sent: 18 February 2002 16:57 > >> > To: CF-Community > >> > Subject: RE: jihad for kids .. wheeee > >> > > >> > > >> > Will Mugabe be elected in a free electoral system where every person > >> > qualified (based on a neutral qualification standard, such as age) is > >> > allowed to vote, to vote secretly, and choose between candidates of > >> > different opinions/stances/agendas? > >> > > >> > If we're going to compare elections, let's be sure we're comparing > >apples > >> to > >> > apples. > >> > > >> > As for America or Britain, alienation is a choice. A free choice. If > >> people > >> > choose not to vote, that has no bearing on the legitimacy of the > >election. > >> > Hell, it enhances it. > >> > > >> > H. > >> > > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Will Swain [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >> > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 8:33 AM > >> > To: CF-Community > >> > Subject: RE: jihad for kids .. wheeee > >> > > >> > > >> > I'm questioning the democractic nature of the US political system, and > >the > >> > British one while I'm at it. I didn't think democracy was the voice of > >> those > >> > who don't feel so alienated by politics that they vote? Winning is the > >> > mandate to rule you say? So when Mugabe wins that will be enough, he > >will > >> > have a mandate to rule? > >> > > >> > will > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >> > Sent: 18 February 2002 16:26 > >> > To: CF-Community > >> > Subject: RE: jihad for kids .. wheeee > >> > > >> > > >> > Winning is the mandate to rule. In a representative government, that's > >> all > >> > you need. > >> > > >> > Getting a majority of the votes (in a three-way election) is irrelevant. > >> > Getting a majority of all registered voters is even more irrelevant. > >> > > >> > I don't really get you're point, however. What does this have to do > >with > >> > democracies being careful? There is no democratic code that says all > >> people > >> > must vote. In fact, not voting is a form of voting. Furthermore, I > >don't > >> > want all people to vote. Too many people who are ill-informed vote > >already > >> > any way. Of course, that's their choice, but I don't believe democracy > >> > suffers when people choose not to vote. The nice thing about a free > >> society > >> > is that you can choose not to participate in the civic process if that's > >> > what floats your boat. People should be free to choose that option > >without > >> > being made out to be cretins. > >> > > >> > H. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Will Swain [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >> > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:25 AM > >> > To: CF-Community > >> > Subject: RE: jihad for kids .. wheeee > >> > > >> > > >> > I see what you are saying but I do worry that there is a dangerous > >> > undercurrent lurking in the background there. Like maybe we could just > >ask > >> > them what they think about it? Otherwise it is simply a case of a > >dominant > >> > culture imposing it's values on everyone else. Yes, it might be from the > >> > best motivations, but I think you could see the arrogance there. > >> > Furthermore, I think you are on very dangerous ground with your > >assertion > >> > that "A government that is formed from a mandate from the masses (and > >not > >> > from some farcical aquatic ceremony) is the only way to go." Again, > >> imposing > >> > a morality and world view on others. Who is to say that a benevolent > >> > dictatorship is not a better way to live? > >> > > >> > Also, I think we who live in 'democratic' countries should be very > >> careful. > >> > After all, is it not true that less than half the population of the US > >> voted > >> > in the last election, and arguably less than half of those who did > >> actually > >> > voted for Bush? Hardly a mandate to rule? > >> > > >> > will > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Lon Lentz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >> > Sent: 15 February 2002 23:32 > >> > To: CF-Community > >> > Subject: RE: jihad for kids .. wheeee > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > I will never accept the premise that "correct" and "right" are > >> > subjective. They are not. > >> > > >> > Killing is not necessarily wrong. Murder is wrong. Completely > >> > different. If killing is "wrong", then why do we hire "cops", give them > >> > badges and guns, and allow them to "kill" in our name? Why do we let the > >> > state "kill" in our name? Why do we let the US military "kill" in our > >> > name? There is no subjectiveness here. There is only absolute. > >> > > >> > I am not in anyway trying to suggest that we shove our western ideals > >> > down their throats. A government that is formed from a mandate from the > >> > masses (and not from some farcical aquatic ceremony) is the only way to > >> > go. That is absolute. However they choose to do it. > >> > > >> > Proper human behavior is right and just. No matter where you live. No > >> > matter what religion you follow. No matter your ethnic background. > >> > > >> > Would you suggest that the female castrations that go on in Africa, > >> > could in some way, be "right" or "correct" for those people? I don't > >> > care what kind of society they have, that is wrong. > >> > > >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > From: chris.alvarado [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >> > > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 5:01 PM > >> > > To: CF-Community > >> > > Subject: Re: jihad for kids .. wheeee > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > no I'm suggesting exactly what I stated. > >> > > > >> > > Absolutes are absolutely wrong. > >> > > > >> > > case in point: > >> > > > >> > > Killing is wrong. > >> > > > >> > > Killing in self defense, is that wrong? > >> > > > >> > > most people would tend to say no, if the choice is kill or be killed, > >> > and > >> > > that is the only way, then killing in self defense is not "wrong", > >> > which > >> > > completely contradicts the first statement: 'killing is wrong'. > >> > Killing is > >> > > killing no matter how pretty you try to paint it. > >> > > > >> > > "right" and "wrong" is all a matter of perception. > >> > > > >> > > believing that something is right or wrong does not make it so. > >> > > > >> > > I believe that the events that occurred on 9/11 and some of the events > >> > > thereafter were "wrong" but that does not make it universally so. > >> > > > >> > > Who put you, or me for that matter in charge of dictating what is > >> > right or > >> > > wrong? > >> > > > >> > > Freedom is not just about living the way you want to live, it is > >> > > about being > >> > > able to also acknowledge the way others choose to live whether you > >> > agree > >> > > with it or not. > >> > > > >> > > Unconventional thought? perhaps, but this country's ideals were > >> > founded on > >> > > what was considered to be unconventional / 'unpopular' thinking. > >> > > > >> > > in short, what is right for you, may not be right for others, I'm > >> > > not saying > >> > > that about freedom or any one thing in particular. I'm saying, in > >> > general. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > ______________________________________________________________________ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
