On Dec 8, 2007 10:38 AM, Jim Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dinner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ...
> > I mean worst case, that still sounds more open, to me.
>
> It IS more open - I never said it wasn't. The basic idea is that it's
> unknowable - there could be or there couldn't be but there's no way for us
>
> to know for sure either way.
>
> "The is no God" is atheism, not agnotism.
Depends on what your definition of is is*. I thought that you were
affronted
when I claimed Atheism a more "closed" approach? Did we get our izes
confuggled? I meant that "there is no God" seems less open ended than
"there may be a god, but..." (whatever the specifics of that but).
*or maybe your definition of it ("it IS more open" == agnosticism?).
Basically in the last 200 hundred years or so "Agnostism" and "Diesm" kind
> of melded in conversation, which is a little sad since we've lost some
> precision when discussing things. Of course all three are generally
> anti-organized religion so their often lumped together anyway.
Heh. Organized anti-organizationists! Precision is all about context,
anywho.
;-)
> God, I love patterns too. And self-organizing systems. And quantum
> > stuff.
>
> Who doesn't? ;^)
>
> Honestly that's part of the fun of be atheistic: you get to figure all
> this
> stuff out. Since you can never fall back on the God of the Gaps argument
> (as in "here's something so strange it must be the work of God") you're
> constantly challenged with wonder.
Yeah, I was using the "god in the gaps" incorrectly, probably. A less
popular
meaning, if you will. I would never fall back on God in that manner- My God
is
all about the learning the wonder, and whatnot. Course, I see the Face of
God
everywhere I look. Pretty fun, being connected. To something... more than
the
sum of parts? (or maybe it is the sum, but we haven't been adding all the
parts ;)
I look at a paper-clip, and marvel, ya know? Just mind-boggling to think
what
all's gone down, ya dig? What a trip reality is! Keeps getting better,
too.
(So my god in the gaps is more like someone else's god in everything.)
It's hard not read Isaac Asimov or Carl Sagan (both atheists, both full of
> giddily wonder for the natural world) and not have their infectious awe
> make
> you smile. There are many, many writers like that.
Yeah, I'm not trying to imply that a hobbled person can't still be a winner,
to spin the whole religion* as a crutch idea around.
*or spiritualism- whatever captures my meaning for you, he he.
I love Asimov, and someday I'll finish the flip-flopper's Boca's Brain. :P
Hell, that's a sorta funny similar sorta almost but not even close type
subject- What's your take about extra-terrestrials? Life elsewhere?
Hey, what's your take on life, while we're at it- You absolutely positive
that
this isn't some sorta Matrix type deal- we're all sitting in vats deep
under-
ground, in the "real" world?
I mean, I can't write off god. Maybe if I provide hard proof, he'll (or
we'll)
cease to exist- or something fun like that (I really <3 <3 <3 Adams, too :).
Personally, like a our [a|e]ffect on the planet, which people seem to feel
is
meaningless- for me, all indicators point to yes. There is something
"more"-
a higher power, if you will- even if it's Just Us (Jungish Us, ya grok).
What gets my dander up about "The Golden Compass" affair is that if you can
> yank Pullman off the shelves for being an atheist, why not them? Where
> does
> it stop?
Tally ho! In a vein not altogether un-akin: Don't censor God, Jim! LOL
(I'm really
cracking up as I type this). Seriously tho- say that- and this is crazy
talk, but
say that the observer /does/ somehow effect(affect? damn ;) what is seen -
Now, whoa- suddenly being open to possibilities is an evolutionary
advantage.
Imagine if willpower, hell, thoughts even, were some sorta force? Can
thinking
abouta sometin reelie, /do/ something?
Crap, I wanna end with that little mantra- my thoughts become words, my
words become actions, my actions- oh, yeah- the interweb:
"Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny."
for I am the eye of the whirlwind. Something like that. Close enough.
(close as in proximity, not close as in shut) LOL. Don't blame me-
it's this music I'm jamming[1]- Secret Agent Man- Given you a number,
taken 'way your name. Secret Agent Man.
[1] yeah, another reference to Iron Eagle
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