You know the apologists can't even hear us man. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 3:49 AM To: CF-Community Subject: Re: FW: Canada Manual: US Prisoners Face Torture
The items they list as 'torture' are no where near real torture. "Stripping, blindfolding and sleep deprivation". Sounds like a night of great sex. :) So here's the real question - What is torture? Is it making someone sit in an uncomfortable chair? Too loud music? Forced work conditions? Just using the three that the report mentions, EVERY country, state and even city can be accused of torture at one point or another. Where's the break point? Is looking at a prisoner too long considered torture? Is standing within an inch of them torture? Can someone claim abuse if their cell is 65 degrees? Can we be considered torturers due to our lifestyle? We, as programmers, sleep deprive ourselves. Our bosses do it to us. Our spouses/kids/parents do it to us. Should we all be added to the Canadian manual? I for one would love to be listed as a torturer along with countries that regularly cut off limbs. Let people know who they may be upsetting. :) On Jan 19, 2008 10:19 AM, Larry Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Saw this in today's Washingtonpost: > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/18/AR2008011802 076.html > > Canada Manual: US Prisoners Face Torture > By ROB GILLIES > The Associated Press > Saturday, January 19, 2008; 12:02 AM > > TORONTO -- A training manual for Canadian diplomats lists the United > States as a country where prisoners risk torture and abuse, citing > interrogation techniques such as stripping prisoners, blindfolding and sleep > deprivation. > > The Foreign Affairs Department document, released Friday, singled out the > U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay. It also names Israel, > Afghanistan, China, Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Mexico and Syria as places > where inmates could face torture. > > The listing drew a sharp response from the U.S., a key NATO ally and > trading partner, which asked to removed from the manual. > > "We find it to be offensive for us to be on the same list with countries > like Iran and China. Quite frankly it's absurd," U.S. Ambassador David > Wilkins told The Associated Press. "For us to be on a list like that is just > ridiculous." > > He said the U.S. does not authorize or condone torture. "We think it > should be removed and we've made that request. We have voiced our opinion > very forcefully," Wilkins said. > > Michael Mendel, the Israeli Embassy spokesman, said Israel's Supreme Court > "is on record as expressly prohibiting any type of torture. If Israel is > included in the list in question, the ambassador of Israel would expect its > removal," he said. > > A Canadian citizen, Omar Khadr, is in custody at Guantanamo, but Canada > has long publicly said it accepts U.S. assurances that Khadr is being > treated humanely. > > The government inadvertently released the manual to lawyers for Amnesty > International who are working on a lawsuit involving alleged abuse of Afghan > detainees by local Afghan authorities, after the detainees were handed over > by Canadian troops. > > Canada said the manual is for training, and does not amount to official > government policy. > > "It is not a policy document or any kind of a statement of policy. As such > it does not convey the government's views or positions," said Neil Hrab, a > spokesman for Canada's Foreign Affairs Department. > > "The training manual purposely raised public issues to stimulate > discussion and debate in the classroom." > > Human rights groups have long called on Canada to pressure the United > States to return Khadr from Guantanamo. They say Canada has not done enough > for Khadr, who has been in custody since he was 15. Khadr is accused of > tossing a grenade that killed one U.S. soldier and wounded another in > Afghanistan in 2002. > > He is the son of an alleged al-Qaida financier, and his family has > received little sympathy in Canada, where they've been called the "First > Family of Terrorism." > > Dennis Edney, one of Khadr's lawyers, said the foreign affairs document > shows that Canada says one thing publicly but believes something else > privately. > > "Canada was well aware that Omar Khadr's allegations of being tortured had > a ring of truth to it. Canada has not once raised the protection of Omar > Khadr when there are such serious allegations," Edney said. "What does that > say to you about Canada's commitment to the rule of law and human rights? It > talks on both sides of its face." > > (c) 2008 The Associated Press > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:251506 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
