Um. I believe you live in southern Ontario. Access to medical care is not really an issue there, I gather.
My experience in Sault Ste Marie was rather different, as was what happened when my kid got an ear infection in Montreal. I don't think my mother gets particularly good medical care in Ottawa. I don't agree with kicking octogenarians out of the country because they might be expensive, nor with expelling immigrants and their Canadian-born children back to certain death in third-world countries because the mother turns out to hae caught HIV from her Canadian husband. These are actual news stories that I saw while I was in Canada. In Great Britain, my father is treated by a doctor who thinks that sleep apnea is a fad and chooses not to believe in its correlation with heart disease. This is not an ideal situation either, to put it mildly and cannot be remedied by changing doctors. Apparently the National Health service feels the link between afib and apnea is insufficiently documented. So. The problem with single payer is monolithic and irrational bureaucracy. On the other side we have my American friend Cathi, who had diabetes and no insurance and died. I cannot help but note that her repeated ER visits and hospitalizations cost far more than it would have cost to keep her alive. So the American system is also irrational, but more expensive. As you were, both of you.... I just thought I would inject some actual experience into the conversation but I realize that it inevitably leads to the conclusiont thta it is not as simple as all that. Dana On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 4:36 PM, Michael Grant <[email protected]> wrote: > > Gruss, this is where it becomes clear that you are very confused about what > it is we're all talking about. You are so focused on the current system in > the US that you cannot wrap your head around how notionalised health care in > Canada and the UK works. There are no "plans." It really doesn't matter what > hospital has what equipment because there is no "my hospital." If your local > hospital doesn't have something you need, like some uncommon piece of > equipment, then a doctor will just refer you to one that does. If your > doctor doesn't provide a service you need, then you get referred to one that > does. You are applying logic to a situation where it doesn't fit then > railing against it. > > I personally think you just like over complicating arguments so you can tell > everyone that they just don't understand. It seems like your own little way > to feel superior. Well here you go Gruss, you're super double duper smart. > Pat on the head for you. Let's hope you don't get more sick than your bank > account can handle. > > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Gruss Gott <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> > Judah wrote: >> > >> > Gruss, you're being purposefully obtuse. >> >> I'm not, but let me try to be more clear: >> >> If the government is going to decide what plans I can and can't get, >> then I'm against it. >> >> If the government is going to what equipment my hospital can and can't >> buy, then I'm against it. >> >> If the government is going to decide what services my doctor can and >> can't perform, then I'm against it. >> >> If there's anything obtuse it's advocating for something you can't >> define nor understand. >> >> You keep pounding the table for "nationalized health care" and >> "government health care" and I'm just asking for you to define that by >> describing the government's role at each constituent level, what the >> estimated costs might be, and who's going to pay for it when and how >> much. >> >> Since nobody's done that, I'm just asking questions and pointing out >> what you've failed to define. >> >> Be honest here: you don't (or didn't) understand the insurance >> business model and you don't (or didn't) understand how >> Medicare/Medicaid works. Nor the costs, nor the implications of >> expansion. >> >> If I was advocating for government run healthcare, those are 2 >> subjects I wouldn't want to be weak on. >> >> So let's agree: none of us here understand this subject well enough to >> advocate for anything, but we all agree that people are entitled some >> basic form of eligibility to health care benefits as citizens of the >> US. The big question is the best way to go about creating that >> system. >> >> I've thrown out my ideas on how to do that in some earlier post. >> >> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:289004 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
