On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 4:35 PM, Robert Munn wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 2:56 PM, denstar wrote: > >> >> Your arguments are starting to confuse me-- do you think torture can >> be justified, or that it can't? > > > Torture is not justifiable. Now let's wait for Congress to specifically > define whether waterboarding is torture, because today it is not > specifically defined in the law as torture. Like I said, that is the heart > of the problem.
You sure choose weird times to put your faith in the government. What did McCain think about water-boarding? Because it wasn't "hotly debated" prior to 2004 doesn't make it some "gray area". Just look at the opinions of the people who say that-- in the same breath they're like "well, it is pretty damn close to torture, enough so that you couldn't blame anyone for calling it such". Is a spade a spade or what, man? Why you all wishy-washy on this stuff? It ain't rocket science. Nobody who's cool thinks water-boarding isn't torture, so there. q-| The "heart of the problem" is our hearts... somehow they've been poisoned, and it wasn't "them" who did it... it was "us". > President Obama says he wants to move forward not back, to move past the > partisan divide. Here is his opportunity. Will he listen to his own advice, > or will he cave? Partisan... heh, love how now Bush 43 is sorta the Democrats fault too, for not winning the election. Now that's what I call sharing! ;) Obama has already proven he doesn't lean too far to either direction (IMO). Which is fine, we need a unite-er. Clinton did a good job, all in all. Dunno if Obama can pull it off like Clinton did... guess time will tell. > Ultimately, I think we should have a commission, but not now, and not as a > criminal matter. Maybe in his second term, if he wins a second term. > Otherwise, he is going to have a political witch-hunt on his hands, and > everyone is going to get slimed. Is that really what we want right now? > Unfortunately, the President set this mess in motion, and unless he cuts it > off soon, I think events are going to outrun his ability to control and > become a very bitter partisan fight that may well sink his presidency. I dunno... I'm pretty sure you want Obama to fail (and not just his policies), so that sorta slants what you predict, and makes me want to take it with a grain of salt, so to speak. I wish there was more for you to want him to fail for, tho. Seriously, it's pretty whacked out that you are so easy going on the government, but want all this accountability and whatnot from the President (now). We can trust the CIA to wiretap us responsibly, with little to no oversight or accountability (I'm sure they'll tell us if they're screwing us, since that's the only way we'd know), but we better keep an eye on this shyster president? It's fine and all, the more people watching these "politicians" (who are all lying scum anyways, right?) the better... but still. Eh. Maybe we won't start seeing better stuff coming out of politicians until we start believing them capable of better stuff. To some extent, at least. Maybe *I* need to start thinking of the government as more of a yin to the people's yang... not exactly "un-trustable", but, well... "different". "Good", even, in the right context. Hmmm.... I sorta like that perspective. Attorneys and politicians tho? Hmmm... I'll have to work on that perception a bit longer. They've been around even longer than government. Egg, meet chicken. Happy Friday! WOOHOOO! -- And I might add the confidence with which distracted persons do oftentimes, when they are awake, think, they see black fiends in places, where there is no black object in sight without them. Robert Boy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:296022 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
