I can think of a person or two here over the years that would easily be considered liberal and was all for the destruction of Israel. Weather it was by 'resistance' as performed by Hamas and Hizballah or the 'export' of Jews to other lands, they were espousing a belief that was in direct conflict with a liberal mindset. How? By choosing the Palestinian narrative as the focus of their ideals leaves Israel as the enemy of the ideals. Not so schizophrenic now.
As for the rather misguided loyalty oath, it has its roots in the peace talks with the Palestinians. The rhetoric has always been two states for two peoples but the Palestinians can't see Israel as a Jewish state. A country can have an 'official' religion and a focus of culture or people. Israel is asking to be recognized in that way by the Arabs in the same way that they have (usually) been recognized by others. This basic recognition would assure future peace as it makes the existence of Israel as a Jewish state a 'fact' to the Arab world. Till now Israel is still seen as something that will be destroyed and will go away. It's in the schoolbooks, on the TV, in the speeches, etc. Again, I don't assume that everyone with a problem with some Israeli policy is an anti-Semite. Most Jews have a problem with Israel in one form or another. I've never said nor implied that everyone or anyone who dislikes some Israeli policy is anti-Semitic. Israel as in the government. Once someone starts talking about Israel as in the entire country i.e. all the people, then we're getting into Antisemitism, especially as they are usually referring only to the Jews of the country. On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Larry C. Lyons <[email protected]> wrote: > > the question is have you heard it from people here? > > If you think that some of my remarks gave any sort of that impression, > then I apologize. it has never been my intension. I simply think that > someone who is against the government of Israel, as it is currently > composed is not necessarily an anti-Semite. I separate Israel from > Judaism. For instance the new loyalty oath that the government of > Israel requires new citizens etc to swear a loyalty oath to the > "Jewish State of Israel" Since I disagree with injecting religion of > any sort into government, does that make me anti-Semetic? As far as I > can see, Israel is a modern state incorporated in 1949 by a UN edict. > I disagree to a very great extent with the policies of the Likud > government. Does that make me an anti-semite? > > On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Michael Dinowitz > <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Of course but I'm talking specifically to your comment on having to be >> schizophrenic to be liberal and support Nazi ideals. Ideals, not >> Nazism. >> >> As an aside, many times when I hear people saying they are just >> anti-Israel, their comments are really totally anti-Semitic. The >> criteria I use is to substitute another country and see if the words >> are attacking the people or the government policies. >> "Those damn Jews in Israel are raping the land" - anti-Semitic >> "Israel's policy is to rape the land" - anti-Israel >> "Israel has no right to exist" - anti-existence (I've heard this from >> Liberals more than once) >> >>> However, I think you can be Anti-Semitic, or disagree with policies >>> concerning Israel, without being a Nazi. >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Michael Dinowitz >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> I really hate to play the Jew or Israel cards but I've seen otherwise >>>> sane liberals go to really insane places when Jews or Israel are >>>> concerned. >>>> >>>> I wonder if Helen Thomas is considered liberal? Or George Soros? >>>> >>>> On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Maureen <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Supporting Nazi ideals and liberal ideals at the same time would be a >>>>> bit schizophrenic. I suppose you might find a Democrat who supported >>>>> the Nazis if you looked really hard, but it's easy to find Republicans >>>>> who did, starting with Prescott Bush >>> >>> >> >> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:329125 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
