socialism can and does work on a small scale.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 11:26 AM Subject: RE: My thoughts on Education > Tenure also allows mediocre/poor teachers to continue to teach. > > There were several examples of this is my school. I also don't agree > with pay system. A poor teacher whose students fail who has been there > 10 years makes the same amount of money as a teacher who has been there > 10 years whose students excel. There is a fundamental problem there. > It is the fundamental problem when everyone is treated equaly, there is > no motivation to work hard, because either way you get the same thing. > It's the reason socialism doesn't work. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:19 PM > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: My thoughts on Education > > If there is no difference in terms of academic performance between > public > and private schooling, then I go for public schooling its cheaper and > more > effective to society as a whole. You not only have rights as a citizen, > but > responsibilities as well. So far you've tended to advocate only the > rights, > not the responsibilities. > > Tenure serves it purpose. It protects senior teachers from being > arbitrarily > fired. I have no problem with that. > > -- > Larry C. Lyons > ColdFusion/Web Developer > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer > EBStor.com > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204 > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795 > tel: (703) 393-7930 > fax: (703) 393-2659 > Web: http://www.ebstor.com > http://www.pacel.com > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done. > -- > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kevin Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 3:13 PM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: RE: My thoughts on Education > > > > > > What I was saying, is parental involvement not the government made the > > improvement saw. Just as you see when parents take an active role in > > their childs life things usually turn out better. > > > > Another beef I have with the education system is how much teachers are > > paid. They need to be paid more and they need to get real educations. > > A teaching degree is about as worthless as they come in my opinion. My > > best teachers in high school had hard degrees. Physics, Math, > > Economics, Literature. I think teachers should be required to get a > > degree in the subject they want to teach. And get rid of tenure! > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:09 PM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: RE: My thoughts on Education > > > > What do you mean by government. Those programs that I saw that worked > > required Government involvement. I object to poor involvement > > not none. > > for > > example, the failures I saw in the Houston school system could be > > directly > > attributable to the government of Governor George W. Bush's > > non-involvement > > in education. That is a prime example of your wanting to get > > government > > out > > of the schools. > > > > -- > > Larry C. Lyons > > ColdFusion/Web Developer > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer > > EBStor.com > > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204 > > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795 > > tel: (703) 393-7930 > > fax: (703) 393-2659 > > Web: http://www.ebstor.com > > http://www.pacel.com > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done. > > -- > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Kevin Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:58 PM > > > To: CF-Community > > > Subject: RE: My thoughts on Education > > > > > > > > > I agree. Do you see a pattern to all the things you like > > > though Larry, > > > parent involvement, volunteers, etc. They don't involve the > > > government. > > > Get the government out of education and I think you will see > > > the system > > > improve dramatically. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:53 PM > > > To: CF-Community > > > Subject: RE: My thoughts on Education > > > > > > There are magnet schools in almost every school district > > specifically > > > intended for this purpose. Frequently these magnet schools are far > > > better > > > institutions than most private schools. > > > > > > Moreover I strongly disagree with backwarding (confining to the > > > equivalent > > > of the back ward in a psych hospital) kids in public schools. Their > > > development is as important as every other kid's. Your experience is > > > typical. There just was not enough help in the school room. > > > > > > One proposal has been to use classroom assistants to reduce the > > > teacher-student ratio. thus when teachers have to deal with special > > > needs > > > students who have, the assistants can pick up the slack. They can be > > > either > > > paid or volunteer aides. Another > > > > > > Another way of alleviating this is to use parents to help out in the > > > schools. One of the best things I saw in a couple of the schools I > > > looked at > > > on this project in Houston was parental involvement. That had the > > > greatest > > > impact on the student school performance. We saw > > significant increases > > > in > > > attendance, for all kids not just the kids of the aide, both school > > > grades > > > and standardized test performances also showed significant > > > improvement. > > > > > > I've also done parallel analyses on some of the NORC data > > > (http://www.NORC.org) using a population of about 3000 5th > > through 8th > > > graders, in the cohort years 1987 through 1990, and found > > very similar > > > results. Parental involvement and teacher-student ratio had a much > > > greater > > > influence on subsequent academic performance. They had > > > considerably more > > > influence than for instance whether the student went to a public or > > > private > > > school or socio-economic status. > > > > > > larry > > > > > > -- > > > Larry C. Lyons > > > ColdFusion/Web Developer > > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer > > > EBStor.com > > > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204 > > > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795 > > > tel: (703) 393-7930 > > > fax: (703) 393-2659 > > > Web: http://www.ebstor.com > > > http://www.pacel.com > > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done. > > > -- > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Kevin Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:31 PM > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > Subject: RE: My thoughts on Education > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't want just choice. I want to see privatized schools > > > that cater > > > > to those with problems. There were many times that I was > > > held up in a > > > > class because a teacher had to cater to someone else who > > > wasn't at the > > > > same level. Albeit that didn't happen as much in the AP > > > > classes I took. > > > > Have a school that caters to gifted children and gives them > > > > the specific > > > > attention they need and have a school that gives specific > > > attention to > > > > those who have needs in other areas. > > > > > > > > Kevin > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:25 PM > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > Subject: RE: My thoughts on Education > > > > > > > > Yes the Wonderful world of vouchers, the panacea of all of our > > > > educational > > > > woes. Do I hear skimming here? No private school is required > > > > to take the > > > > special needs kids that public schools are required to do > > > so by law. I > > > > would > > > > have no problem with vouchers if the exact same standards > > for public > > > > education are applied to private schools in order to > > > receive vouchers. > > > > This > > > > includes all constitutionality issues and issues of free > > > access. Your > > > > local > > > > religious school would have to deal with those kids with > > > tourettes or > > > > Autism > > > > or ADHD etc at certain minimal standards or those kids who > > > > get fed as an > > > > afterthought, instead of not allowing them in the school in > > > the first > > > > place. > > > > if a sectarian school, or any private school want to get > > government > > > > money or > > > > services then they have to follow minimal standards. I would > > > > not be too > > > > surprised if the exact same standards have to be met by > > > > private schools, > > > > most will quickly drop out. Quite rapidly this so-called > > > school choice > > > > becomes no choice at all. > > > > > > > > larry > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Larry C. Lyons > > > > ColdFusion/Web Developer > > > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer > > > > EBStor.com > > > > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204 > > > > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795 > > > > tel: (703) 393-7930 > > > > fax: (703) 393-2659 > > > > Web: http://www.ebstor.com > > > > http://www.pacel.com > > > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done. > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Kevin Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:11 PM > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > Subject: RE: My thoughts on Education > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The wonderful world of vouchers. I get the same amount of > > > > tax dollars > > > > > that is spent on my son to go to public school. Of course this > > > > > transition takes time and you have to do it right. Otherwise > > > > > the public > > > > > schools, as they faze out will be a wreck. So at the same > > > > > time I think > > > > > additional funds would be needed to help them. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: William H. Bowen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:09 PM > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > Subject: Re: My thoughts on Education > > > > > > > > > > Alright, I'll bite... > > > > > > > > > > and we'll start simple, one point at a time (one point at a > > > > time offer > > > > > not > > > > > valid in all states or states of mind... ;-) > > > > > How do you propose that these "privatized" schools make > > money, not > > > > > necessarily profit mind you, but just meet operating expenses. > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > William H. Bowen > > > > > Webmaster > > > > > ALSTOM's Energy Management & Markets Business > > > > > > > > > > "Your friendly neighborhood Webmaster" > > > > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > http://www.esca.com/ > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Kevin Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 11:01 AM > > > > > Subject: My thoughts on Education > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Personally I am not a big fan of public education. My son > > > > > will attend > > > > > > private schools, unless there is a fundamental > > change. I think > > > > > schools > > > > > > should be privatized. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Beth F [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 12:56 PM > > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > > Subject: Re: Slowly I crawl back....i'll be nice this time. > > > > > > > > > > > > Good. > > > > > > > > > > > > its still happening - feel free to jump in with your > > > > > education system > > > > > > opinions at any time. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Kevin Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 9:47 AM > > > > > > Subject: Slowly I crawl back....i'll be nice this time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok I'm back....in the words of Eminem...life just > > > isn't any fun > > > > > > without > > > > > > > me. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see I missed one of my favorite debates when I > > looked at the > > > > > > archives, > > > > > > > our public education system! Darn it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
