Cool thing about these ice cores is that they track other stuff than just CO2. Heavy metals etc. for instance. I'll have to dig up the reference (not on my home laptop with the ref) but tracking these metals (in Greenland mainly from the Rio Tinto mines in Spain which have been mining lead since 600BC) trace very closely the rise and fall of the Roman, Byzantine and Islamic empires. These results closely correlate with CO2 levels to such an extent that you can see the influence on global climate change based on the rise and fall of these empires. Moreover recent findings in the ice cores from the Andes indicate that the fall of the Maya and Aztec civilizations either hastened or caused the Little Ice Age in the 16th-17th centuries.
On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Scott Stroz <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Sam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Scott Stroz <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > You keep going on and on about this, and how the Earth has not gotten > > > warmer in the last 10 years or so. > > > > > > > > 17 > > > > 17? Then why do you keep saying 10? Either way, it is still not even a > blink of the eye when compared to how long some of these cycles last. > > > > > > > > > > > When you look at the history of the Earth, it is BILLIONS of years old. > > > Over time, there have been periods of warming and periods of cooling. > > > During a 'warming period' not every year would have been warmer than > the > > > previous. Not to mention that 10 years over the span of millions is not > > > even the equivalent of the 'blink of an eye' > > > > > > > > If you go back past 1880 then this particular warming cycle is cyclical > and > > not extraordinary. > > > > I understand that. I thought I made that clear, but maybe not. My bad. > > > > > > > Take a look at this chart - > > > > > > > > > http://www.daviesand.com/Choices/Precautionary_Planning/New_Data/IceCores1.gifit > > > shows a relationship between CO2 levels and temperature. You can see > > > that even during 'cooling trends' there were 'spikes' where it was > > warmer, > > > but the overall trend was that it was getting cooler. The same can be > > said > > > of the 'warming' periods and 'dips' where it was cooler, but the > overall > > > trend was that it was getting warmer. > > > > > > > > Bad chart. First, CO2 lags behind temperature. Second, CO2 is lower now > > than it was 100k and 300k years ago. I think you need a new source. > > > > I won't argue over which one 'lags' as it is difficult to tell with any > certainty from this graph. > > However, as for your assertion that CO2 levels are lower now than 100K & > 300K years ago, you are wrong. Take a closer look. The red line (the CO2) > is higher now than at any other time that we can tell. The highest in the > past (about 330k years ago) was just over 300 ppmv, on the far right of the > graph it is almost at 380 ppmv - lets call it 360 ppmv. Last time I > checked, 360 is higher than 300. > > > > > The thing that concerns me about that graph is the CO2 level at the far > > > right of the graph. It is higher than at any other time that we can > > > determine. I think it is a safe assumption that the big 'spike' on the > > > right side of the graph is from humans. If you believe otherwise, you > are > > > foolish. > > > > > > The debate is what will happen because of those increased levels of > CO2. > > > And I don't think anyone can say with any level of certainty what will > > > happen. But, if you think that we can continue to pump that mush C)2 > int > > > the atmosphere and not suffer some kind of side effects, you are also > > being > > > foolish. > > > > > > > By closing "cleaner fuel burning factories" in the US so China and India > > can do the manufacturing in "dirty" is foolish. Look at the US CO2 > > emissions, they went way down without cap-n-trade laws yet those other > > countries CO2 skyrocketed. Wouldn't it make more sense to keep the clean > > factories open? > > > > Yep, it would. Not sure where you got the idea I thought otherwise > considering what followed in my reply. > > > > > > > > > > So, my feeling is, regardless of what will happen with the climate, we, > > as > > > a species, should be trying to reduce the levels of CO2. Why? Because > we > > > don't know what will happen. If we reduce our CO2 emissions and nothing > > > would have happened anyway, the worst result is that we leave the > planet > > in > > > better shape. If we do nothing about CO2 emissions and it will cause > the > > > problems that some predict, well, then we are screwed. > > > > > > > > That's what the head of the IPCC said. So much for science. > > > > I think it is better than your position: 'nothing bad is happening yet, so > screw it, lets keep polluting the planet until something bad does happen, > then we will deal with..if we can.' > > CO2 levels are higher than they ever have been that we can tell. No one > knows with any certainty what will happen. You really think the best course > of action is to do nothing and hope you are right? I would rather we do > something and hope we are wrong. Everyone wins then...including the planet. > > > > > I think I want ot error on the side of caution on this one. > > > > > > > > And error you will. > > > > > > > I hope that the climate change proponents are wrong and that all the crap > we pump into the atmosphere will have no effect on the planet at all. I > think it best if we plan for the worst, while hoping for the best. > > What harm does reducing pollution do? I cannot think of a single con > against it, only pros. > > -- > Scott Stroz > --------------- > You can make things happen, you can watch things happen or you can wonder > what the f*&k happened. - Cpt. Phil Harris > > http://xkcd.com/386/ > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:367148 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
