Actually, the major example that I can point to is I Samuel chapter 28, verses 3-20, where after Samuel's death, Saul is in great turmoil It is the eve of the battle between Israel and the Philistines. Saul is afraid -- Samuel has just died and Saul knows that the kingship of Israel will be given to David and not to his son Jonathan, in punishment for a previous sin. He is beset by enemies, and having gotten no answer from G-d (something I can't go into without another long post), Saul decides to contact Samuel to ask him what to do. He consults with a medium (known in Hebrew as a ba'al Ov V'yidoni, in English we'd call her a necromancer) and she raises Samuel from the dead.
What exactly is happening here? In the Jewish view, I've never seen a commentary say that this was a demon. We've got three explanations here: 1. It was sleight of hand on the part of the medium. (Rabbi Shmuel Ben Chofni Gaon) 2. It was Saul's fevered imagination. (Maimonides and Ralbag) 3. Samuel was really raised from the dead and gave a message to Saul. (I believe Rav Sa'adiah Gaon says this, but I may be misunderstanding the source.) In the third view, it would be wrong to try to communicate with the dead because their souls are at rest and doing so is disrespectful and disturbing that rest. They've had their time here on earth. Now they're having their just desserts. There are two reasons that I'd go with the third view (that necromancy works but it's wrong.) 1. In the story, the medium does not realize who Saul is until Samuel appears. Meaning she seemingly did not conjure him knowingly. So therefore, something unexpected (to her) is happening here. 2. The ghost of Samuel gives Saul several prophecies, which includes telling Saul that the battle with the Phillistines will be lost and that he and his son Jonathan will die tomorrow. And these prophecies come true. How could this be a demon, then? And let's say that necromancy doesn't work (for the sake of argument). Why should this then be demons? Why would it not be G-d talking to Saul in a way that he would understand? > >Actually, I have to disagree here. Christians hold by the 5 books of Moses > >as well as their own testaments. One of the few direct laws concerning the > >occult is a straight forward prohibition against necromancy. If necromancy > >didn't work, then why is there a prohibition against it? > > Mind you it's been a while now since I've re-read any of the books, but if > I understood what it was saying (as opposed to what modern Christian > preachers say it says) the reasoning was this: That the dead are dead, and > necromancy doesn't work. If you do try to talk to the dead and some... > thing answers, it is not your deceased beloved but a demonic presence > *pretending* to be them. As to what it seeks to gain by this deception > you'd have to ask it. At any rate, that was the reasoning behind the > prohibition against talking to dead things as I understood it -- that in > your obvious desperation to talk to your beloved dead that you'd be > receptive to anything the dark powers told you and thus and easy to > manipulate to their own ends. > > Again, mind you, this is simply how it read to me. Even if you can read > ancient Aramaic and Greek there are many sayings and general assumptions > whose context has been lost over the ages making it difficult to understand > what they are truly saying, especially when they take poetic license. (Such > as the phrase "40 days and 40 nights" -- supposedly this was simply a > common phrase that meant "a long time", and not necessarily 40 actual days. > I am amused, continuing on that point, that most people though think the > entire "flood" incident took 40 days. As I recall, it actually says from > the day Noah and kin got on the boat till they finally embarked was about 1 > year and 1 week.) I don't see that this is such a problem, btw. The floodwaters might have taken forty days to come down. The rain stopped. The waters did not go down until 1 year and 1 week. Why is that impossible? And if G-d is creating the flood, why could he not make it rain for 40 days and nights? > > >In the Jewish realm of writings, there's a lot more dealing with necromancy > >and necromancers. A few pages of Talmud Sanhedrin (The Talmud is basically > >commentary on the oral law) deals with the punishment for necromancers and > >other places talk on the what and how of it. > > It's been many a year since I've read through the Jewish books... the one > with the talking mule(?) and the angel who stops in for a bite to eat come > to mind though. Or perhaps I'm just recalling some of the Nag Hammadi > books. Something to add to my winter re-read list to refresh my memory. :) > > One thing the Christian community could borrow from Jewish tradition is > semi-mandatory reading of the Bible as adults. Aside from preachers/deacons > I could easily count the number of people I know that have read through it > as an adult on one hand. Yes, actually, I must thank you -- You gave me an excuse to refresh my memory and read through Samuel I a bit. I enjoyed that. Judith ______________________________________________________________________ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
