Brian,
It's funny how bad email communication can make things. I wholeheartedly
agree with your firing the person, and when that person makes a hostile or
uncomfortable environment for others that's exactly what was right. I was mainly
trying to speak about the football player.
From the simple fact that you had a lesbian working in the office he should
have caught the clue, and with her complaining it was of course the correct decision.
Your firing the guy for saying that is the same thing as not hiring someone you don't
want to. I support your right to do it, and personally support your reasoning. I was
also just saying that I support the 49er's right to do nothing about it (even if I
find it personally and morally reprehensible).
Sorry for the confusion Brian. Also I am very sorry that people would be so cowardly
as to first take it off list, and second make such ignorant remarks.
Lets try a little test. See I support Brian in his opinion. Why not mail me a threat
or some hateful remark. My primary email address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hehe.
Wonder if anyone want to take me up on that one :)
Enjoy your holidays everyone. I am off for four amazing days. Should be a blast.
It's the most time in a row I have had off in almost 4 years.
Later.
Timothy Heald
Assistant Webmaster
Overseas Security Advisory Council
U.S. Department of State
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Ledwith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 3:26 PM
To: Timothy Heald
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Reason 49er why athletes should stay on the field and away
from the microphone...
Tim (and whoever else reads this),
Firstly, I agree, and respect, your stance.
I agree with you about "I think as a business owner you should be able to hire, fire,
promote and exclude anyone you feel like it for any reason", remember that I fired the
guy because I found his behavior to be unacceptable. Could he have brought me to
court over it? Maybe. Screw him. It's my company, he violated my policies, and I
gave him the boot.
I think that if we were to talk, you would see that I'm in full agreement with "I am
an American. I am a constitutionalist. I believe in the 1st Amendment". Like you,
I too volunteered a number of years of my life to protect the freedom and rights of
Americans, and I'd live nowhere else.
My argument, and I don't even want to call it an argument, is that there is a minimal
level of maturity, professionalism, and respect that I expect from people.
It's amazing. I know there are a number of lurkers on this list, and most of us have
email addresses on the side that we know no one else knows we have. I've actually
received 8, off-list emails since I made my original post.
-A few telling me to "F off"
-One to "F off and move to Canada" (I didn't quite get his/her point, but I think it's
the same wiseass that said that to me a year ago when I posted something about guns
[Note: I own one, regardless of the point I was making a year ago])
-One saying "Thanks for the post, Brain, it's tough to be gay..."
-And surprisingly (or not), a few containing just one word, "faggot".
The "faggot" ones demonstrate my point, though... Did they have the _right_ to say
that? Yup. Do I respect that right? Yup. If these unidentified people ever sent me
a resume, regardless of their qualifications, would I consider hiring them? Absolutly
not.
Part of my point is that as adults, I feel a (like I said above) minimum level of
maturity needs to be demonstrated before someone opens their mouth.
A good example:
A few months ago I was keeping an eye on the CF-Jobs and CF-Jobs-Talk lists, as I was
looking to hire two developers for a 3 month project. (The position, by the way, was
full-time, telecommuting, and paid $7000 a month. Not bad, huh?) All it took was a
few people talking like drunken frat boys for me to drop a friendly reminder, aimed at
no one specific, saying, "You might want to watch what you say here, as there are a
few people with a fistful of cash watching." A few of them had the nerve to email me
off-list telling me to piss off. Fine, they went on my shitlist (pardon me). One of
them actually had the impudence to send me an offensive email from account, and then a
resume for the position I vaguely mentioned from another account. How do I know it
was the same person? Because the moron didn't pay attention to his signature file.
The same name, address, phone number, on both the "F-off" and the "I have excellent
communication skills" emails.
That is what I'm trying to get at. Put a rifle back in my hands, a uniform on my
back, and I'll go back and defend my (and yours and his and hers...) right to say
whatever I want. But for Christ's sake, think before you speak.
I've received 2 more emails since I started this, both telling me to f off. Do they
really expect me to write back?
Nope, I don't have time to waste.
I have a holiday to celebrate.
Happy Thanksgiving, Tim (and everyone else), God bless America, and God help the
stupid and ignorant.
--> -----Original Message-----
--> From: Timothy Heald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
--> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 10:47 AM
--> To: CF-Community
--> Subject: RE: Reason 49er why athletes should stay on the field and away
--> fr om the microphone...
-->
--> Preface:
--> I am not a homophobe. I believe all people should be allowed to
--> live according to their personal morals (within in certain limits, eg.
--> you should not be able to kill because you feel like it).
-->
--> Argument:
--> I am an American. I am a constitutionalist. I believe in the 1st
--> Amendment. I would fight for and die for this persons right to say what
--> he did. Just as I will defend a person who burns the flag I love, or a
--> communist, or a racist. Not because I agree with them, but because when
--> we stop them from talking, someone will stop me from talking.
-->
--> Should he be punished by the team? That depends on the owners (or
--> share holders) views. See he is not a government employee. He has the
--> right to say pretty much what he wants. He doesn't work for the
--> government, so as a private company the team should not be responsible,
--> for either his words, or to punish him for those words. Also, while he
--> said he didn't want a homosexual there, there is not evidence that
--> someone WHO IS QUALIFIED has been prevented from getting a job there
--> strictly on that basis.
-->
--> This leads to another discussion. Should a private (no government
--> funding) company be allowed to discriminate? Say I own a company. I
--> built it with my hands and my sweat. Yet I am some schmuck racist.
--> Hell lets say it's a place that prints the garbage that they spew. I
--> put an ad in the paper for a new printer. A black then shows up for the
--> job. He has much better experience and credentials for the position
--> than anyone else. Should the government then force me to hire him?
-->
--> Something of this nature happened a few years ago. A group of men
--> sued Hooters for not allowing them to be waitresses at their
--> restaurants. I believe they may have even won in NY at some point.
--> However people know what hooters is, and why they go there. So should
--> they be forced to hire people on that basis.
-->
--> See I think as a business owner you should be able to hire, fire,
--> promote and exclude anyone you feel like it for any reason. That's why
--> it's called the PRIVATE sector.
-->
--> Just one of my many pet peeves. We can get into private property
--> rights some other time.
-->
--> Tim
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