Ask a gay person if s/he have any CHOICE about being gay and most likely, they will tell you they have absolutely no CHOICE in the matter. Myself I couldn't suddenly CHOOSE not to be heterosexual.
Now I don't know if its genetic or environmental or both. But its clear to me that to a large extent you are controlled by your genes! Theres no way around that proof. You cant suddenly CHOOSE to be tall or short despite your genes. But theres also enviromental proof that cant be denied either. Take a nice dog and beat it constantly and you'll have a pretty untrustworty dog. Look carefully and you'll notice that that dog didn't CHOOSE to be abused either. So to a large extent, you cant CHOOSE much in your life. All you can do is the best you can with what happens to you. Then you can make decisions that affect how much CHOICES you have. But within those boundaries, youre still a machine controlled by youre genes and by whats happened to you. DRE Another funny one is refusing to consider evolution because one of the conclusion is that you evolved from a monkey! > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 3:02 PM > To: CF-Community > Subject: Re: Warning: This may offend if religious > > > Here's the problem. The way your making it sound below > basically says we have no choice in the matter. If you've got > the 'gay gene(s)' then your going to be gay no matter what. I > just can not accept that scientifically. And that's besides > the 'it's determined early in pregnancy". But that's just me. > I believe that I am not a machine controlled by my genes. > > > All the available evidence suggest that whether you are > attracted to > > the same or the opposite sex is determined very early on during > > pregnancy. If there is such a strong biological component to being > > straight or gay, then all the negative results with different > > conversion therapies fit. From what I remember, the only type of > > therapy that may have showed some promise was aversion > therapy, where > > the client/victim would be shocked when they saw a picture > of a naked > > man, and the shock was stopped, or the subject not shocked (relief > > conditioning) when shown a picture of a naked woman. > > > > Again no followup and there was no real details about the > subjects. I > > suspect that over the long term the therapy did not work. > > > > larry > > > > >The story of that is a very interesting one. It basically > involved a > > >'forced' vote where those against were not allowed into the room. > > >Once the vote was made, there was basically no turning > back. Lots of > > >controversy... > > > > > >> http://www.aap.org/policy/05072.html > > >> "In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association reclassified > > >> homosexuality > as > > >> a sexual orientation/expression rather than as a mental > disorder. > > >> [1] The etiology of homosexuality remains unclear, but > the current > > >> literature and the vast majority of scholars in this > field state > > >> that one's sexual orientation is not a choice, that is, > > >> individuals no more choose to be homosexual than heterosexual." > > >> > > >> http://www.psych.org/pract_of_psych/copptherapyaddendum83100.cfm > > >> "...the American Psychiatric Association opposes any psychiatric > treatment, > > >> such as reparative or conversion therapy which is based upon the > assumption > > >> that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based > upon the a > > >> priori assumption that the patient should change his/her sexual > > >> homosexual orientation." > > >> > > >> http://www.psych.org/public_info/homose~1.cfm > > >> "There are a few reports in the literature of efforts to use > > >> psychotherapeutic and counseling techniques to treat persons > > >> troubled by their homosexuality who desire to become > heterosexual; > > >> however, results > have > > >> not been conclusive, nor have they been replicated. There is no > > >> evidence that any treatment can change a homosexual > person's deep > > >> seated sexual feelings for others of the same sex. " > > >> > > > > http://www.apa.org/pubinfo/answers.html > > >> "Is Sexual Orientation a Choice? > > >> > > >> No, human beings can not choose to be either gay or straight. > > >> Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence > > >> without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose > > >> whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider > > >> sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be > > >> voluntarily changed." > > >> > > >> http://www.hrc.org/newsreleases/1998/981211apa.asp > > >> > > >> > http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/resolution97_comment.html > > >> http://www.covenantnetwork.org/chgther.html > > >> > > >> -Kevin > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > > >> > From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > >> > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 12:49 PM > > >> > To: CF-Community > > >> > Subject: Re: Warning: This may offend if religious > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Actually, it is. No amount of research has shown for > a fact that > > >> > you are forced > to be gay or not. There has been > some research > > >> to show that there > are things > > >> > that may make someone more inclined in that area, but the same > > >> > can be said for > > >> > many other behavioral choices. > > >> > On that same note, there is research to indicate that > religion, > > >> > or the belief in > > >> > the divine has a biological component as well. As this puts > > > > > homosexuality on the > > > > > same biological level as religion, to bash one is to > allow the > > > bashing > of > > > > > another. Lets add in left handed people as well just > for good > > > measure. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Homosexuality is usually not a choice. > > >> > > > > >> > > -Kevin > > >> > > > > >> > > > -----Original Message----- > > >> > > > From: William H. Bowen > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > >> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:39 AM > > > To: > CF-Community > > >> > > > Subject: Re: Warning: This may offend if religious > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > I find it interesting that homosexuality is considered a > > >> > > > "lifestyle" choice > > >> > > > whereas religious faith is not. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > <cf_flamesuit condition=on> > > >> > > > > > >> > > > will > > >> > > > ---- > > >> > > > > > >> > > > William H. Bowen > > >> > > > Webmaster > > >> > > > > > >> > > > ALSTOM's T&D Energy Automation & Information Business > > >> > > > > > >> > > > "Your friendly neighborhood Webmaster!" > > >> > > > > > >> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >> > > > http://www.esca.com/ > > >> > > > > > >> > > > 425.739.3629 Voice > > >> > > > 425.466.7016 Cell > > >> > > > 425.739.3690 FAX > > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Matthew Small" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> > > > To: "CF-Community" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > >> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 8:34 AM > > > Subject: RE: > > >> Warning: This may offend if religious > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Well, you got your flame :-) > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > First of all, I would say that you need to read > the Bible > > >> > in order to > > >> > > > > understand it, and then there are things that > either humans are > not > > >> > > > > meant to understand or their meaning has not > been revealed > > >> yet. > > > > > > > > Second, I respect your right to > disbelieve > > >> and disagree but > not to bash. > > >> > > > > Just two or three days ago, this list > (publicly, at least) > > >> > was all about > > >> > > > > protecting the homosexual lifestyle and routing > out the bigots. > My > > >> > > > > faith is as important to me as anybody else's > lifestyle. > > >> > Saying that > > > > war is all due to the Christian Bible is > > >> like saying that > poverty is due > > >> > > > > to the blacks, or that all Muslims are looking > to bomb your > > >> > workspace. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > I'm not upset, I just want the respect that every other > > >> > lifestyle seems > > >> > > > > to enjoy. It seems like bashing Christians for > their faith > > >> > is ok these > > >> > > > > days. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Matthew Small > > >> > > > > IT Supervisor > > >> > > > > Showstopper National Dance Competitions > > >> > > > > 3660 Old Kings Hwy > > >> > > > > Murrells Inlet, SC 29576 > > >> > > > > 843-357-1847 > > >> > > > > http://www.showstopperonline.com > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > -----Original Message----- > > >> > > > > From: Mark Smyth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > >> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:13 AM > > >> > > > > To: CF-Community > > >> > > > > Subject: RE: Warning: This may offend if religious > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > i for one agree totally > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > -----Original Message----- > > >> > > > > From: cfhelp [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > >> > > > > Sent: 05 December 2002 16:22 > > >> > > > > To: CF-Community > > >> > > > > Subject: RE: Warning: This may offend if religious > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > It's no wonder the world is at war. One chapter > say's this > > >> > and the next > > >> > > > > contradicts but nobody can get the point. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Well there was a South Park episode that got it > right. This book > was > > >> > > > > meant > > >> > > > > as an example not as law and certainly not a > prelude for > > >> war. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Expecting Flames > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Rick > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > -----Original Message----- > > >> > > > > From: Philip Arnold - ASP [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > >> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 9:19 AM > > >> > > > > To: CF-Community > > >> > > > > Subject: Warning: This may offend if religious > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > http://justdrew.net/Biblical/ > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > This guy basically goes through the bible pointing out > > >> > inconsistancies > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Some are pretty funny/strange, but damn > interesting none the less > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Oh, and the links he points out goto a site > that only has the New > > >> > > > > Testament, not the Old, so quite a few don't work > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Philip Arnold > > >> > > > > Technical Director > > >> > > > > Certified ColdFusion Developer > > > > > > > > ASP Multimedia Limited > > >> > > > > Switchboard: +44 (0)20 8680 8099 > > >> > > > > Fax: +44 (0)20 8686 7911 > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > www.aspmedia.co.uk > > >> > > > > www.aspevents.net > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > An ISO9001 registered company. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >> > ********************************************************************** > > >> > > > > This email and any files transmitted with it > are confidential and > > >> > > > > intended solely for the use of the individual > or entity to whom > they > > >> > > > > are addressed. If you have received this email > in error > > > >> please notify > > > > the system manager. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > ********************************************************************** > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
