My opinions are based on facts, of course Bill.  Having a phone conversation with the breeder doesn't make them a good breeder who is doing the proper health care checks.  A breeder who sells to a pet store is motivated by money.  A good breeder doesnt' make money off of their litters.  A good breeder spends more money on proper veterinary care for their litters than they make selling the litter.  A good breeder wants to know where each and every dog that they create goes, and get a guarantee that the dog will go back to them should something happen and the home be unsuitable.  Your dogs breeder doesn't care what happens to it after it enters the pet store, or else it wouldn't be there.

If you are actually interested I can find you many websites that will explain to you why buying from a pet store isn't a good idea
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Bill Wheatley
  To: CF-Community
  Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 12:41 PM
  Subject: RE: Newest Puppy

  ok must not have read... let me retry

  "but I also called the breeder where the puppy came from"
  They gave me the information for the breeder so I could contact them and
  speak with them. Sorry if it was that hard to understand lol.
  I felt that it would be acceptable and the persons attitude reassured
  me. That being said I am the one and only person who is capable of
  making the decision based on the facts presented to me as well as my own
  personal judgment about the person and the owner of the pet store. Now I
  thought you had facts instead of general stereotypes and blanket
  statements. That's upsetting to me Beth you're normally driven by facts.
  To hear you make a blanket statement is very saddening. Even if 9 out of
  10 times they are from a puppy mill where the puppies are mistreated the
  1 time that you get a good puppy kills the stereotype.

  Here's a few tidbits on puppy mills. You can read the whole article at
  you leisure but it pretty much follows my point of view on what a real
  puppy mill is.
  Source: http://www.canismajor.com/dog/puppymil.html

  It's easy to say that John Jones or Mary Smith runs a puppy mill or that
  pet store puppies come from puppy mills, but the label is tossed about
  so frequently and with so little regard for accuracy that each
  prospective dog owner should ascertain for himself whether or not he
  wishes to buy a dog from John Jones, Mary Smith, a pet store, or a hobby
  breeder. Here are our Dog Owner's Guide definitions to help you decide:

  Hobby breeder: A breed fancier who usually has only one breed but may
  have two; follows a breeding plan in efforts to preserve and protect the
  breed; produces from none to five litters per year; breeds only when a
  litter will enhance the breed and the breeding program; raises the
  puppies with plenty of environmental and human contact; has a contract
  that protects breeder, dog, and buyer; runs a small, clean kennel;
  screens breeding stock to eliminate hereditary defects from the breed;
  works with a breed club or kennel club to promote and protect the breed;
  and cares that each and every puppy is placed in the best home possible.

  Commercial breeder: One who usually has several breeds of dogs with
  profit as the primary motive for existence. The dogs may be healthy or
  not and the kennel may be clean or not. The dogs are probably not
  screened for genetic diseases, and the breeding stock is probably not
  selected for resemblance to the breed standard or for good temperament.
  Most commercial breeders sell their puppies to pet stores or to brokers
  who sell to pet stores.

  Broker: One who buys puppies from commercial kennels and sells to retail
  outlets. Brokers ship puppies by the crate-load on airlines or by
  truckload throughout the country. Brokers must be licensed by USDA and
  must abide by the shipping regulations in the Animal Welfare Act.

  Buncher: One who collects dogs of unknown origin for sale to
  laboratories or other bunchers or brokers. Bunchers are considered lower
  on the evolutionary scale than puppy mill operators, for there is much
  suspicion that they buy stolen pets, collect pets advertised as "Free to
  a good home", and adopt unwanted pets from animal shelters for research
  at veterinary colleges or industrial research laboratories.

  Backyard breeder: A dog owner whose pet either gets bred by accident or
  who breeds on purpose for a variety of reasons. This breeder is usually
  ignorant of the breed standard, genetics, behavior, and good health
  practices. A backyard breeder can very easily become a commercial
  breeder or a puppy mill.

  Puppy mill: A breeder who produces puppies hand over fist with no
  breeding program, little attention to puppy placement, and poor health
  and socialization practices. A puppy mill may or may not be dirty but it
  is usually overcrowded and the dogs may be neglected or abused because
  the breeder can't properly handle as many dogs as he has. Puppy mill
  operators often denigrate hobby breeders and their dogs in attempts to
  make a sale.

  --
  Bill Wheatley
  Senior Database Developer
  eDiets.com, Inc.
  (OTCBB: EDET)
  3801 W. Hillsboro Blvd.
  Deerfield Beach, FL  33442
  V: (954) 360-9022 ext. 159
  F: (954) 360-9095
  E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  W:  <http://www.ediets.com/> www.ediets.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: BethF [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 4:34 PM
  To: CF-Community
  Subject: Re: Newest Puppy

  Thats not what I meant - pet stores GET THEIR PUPPIES FROM PUPPY MILLS.
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Bill Wheatley
    To: CF-Community
    Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 12:13 PM
    Subject: RE: Newest Puppy

    They are down the street from my house they have a store front. And if
  a
    store that sells puppies is what a puppy mill is then i'd be suprised.
  I
    was under the impression its the breeders who keep their animals in
  less
    then good standings and only breed the animals to sell off the babies.
  I
    don't think the store counts as a puppy mill but i also called the
    breeder where the puppy came from before we bought the dog so i'm
  trying
    to see if beth saw something about the breeder that i do not know.

    --
    Bill Wheatley
    Senior Database Developer
    eDiets.com, Inc.
    (OTCBB: EDET)
    3801 W. Hillsboro Blvd.
    Deerfield Beach, FL  33442
    V: (954) 360-9022 ext. 159
    F: (954) 360-9095
    E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
    W:  <http://www.ediets.com/> www.ediets.com

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Angel Stewart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 2:44 PM
    To: CF-Community
    Subject: RE: Newest Puppy

    The website...is a 'puppy farm. '

    So sending the link sort of implied you ordered the puppy via the
    website.

    -Gel

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