Another suggestion would be
'net_primary_mole_productivity_of_carbon_utilizing_nitrate'.  I agree
that 'due_to_nitrate' doesn't really mean much in this instance given
that it is the phytoplankton that are the causal factor, not the nitrate
per se.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowry, Roy K" <[email protected]>
Date: Thursday, April 29, 2010 6:35 am
Subject: RE: [CF-metadata] BGC output for CMIP5 simulations (fwd)

> Hello Philip/Alison
> 
> Couple of points.
> 
> (1) Radicals are more of relevance to the atmosphere than water 
> bodies so I don't think confusion between them and ions is an 
> issue.  As standard names are becoming incorporated into URLs, the 
> '+' character is best avoided.  Also without semantic support 
> (which is coming), very few datasets labelled 'NO3-' would get 
> found as most oceanographers would search for 'nitrate' 
> 
> (2) 
> 'net_primary_mole_productivity_of_carbon_due_to_nitrate_consumption'
or 'net_primary_mole_productivity_of_carbon_due_to_nitrate_nutrition'
would get around Alison's issue. 'due_to_nitrate' is simply lazy speak
for the process.
> 
> Cheers, Roy.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:cf-metadata-
> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Philip J. Cameronsmith1
> Sent: 28 April 2010 23:04
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: Keith Lindsay; CF-metadata email list; [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] BGC output for CMIP5 simulations (fwd)
> 
> 
> Hi Alison,
> 
> Thanks for your email.
> 
> I am not an expert on ecosystems, and so will defer to those who are.
> 
> I had assumed that the variable was for carbon production CAUSED by 
> nitrate through some process, in which case _due_to_ seemed to me 
> to be 
> appropriate.
> 
> Going back to your spreadsheet, I see that the description for 
> net_new_primary_mole_productivity_of_carbon was 'Vertically 
> integrated 
> primary (organic carbon) production by phytoplankton based on NO3 
> alone'.So now I'm not so sure, and need guidance from an expert.
> 
> Is this quantity just being calculated using nitrate as a proxy 
> data 
> source, or is it production caused by nitrate?
> 
> BTW, we might consider replacing NO3 and NH4 in the description 
> with 
> 'nitrate' and 'ammonium', or 'NO3-' and 'NH4+', or making it 
> unambiguous 
> in some other way, that these are ions and not radicals.  
> Admittedly, this 
> is probably obvious to most people with some familiarity with the 
> chemistry or biology, but we might as well be precise.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
>      Philip
> 
> On Wed, 28 Apr 2010, [email protected] wrote:
> 
> > Dear Philip,
> >
> > Thanks very much for forwarding these emails to the list and 
> sorry for
> > not picking up on this thread sooner.
> >
> > The standard names
> > 
>
tendency_of_mole_concentration_of_particulate_organic_matter_expressed_a> 
s_carbon_in_sea_water_due_to_net_new_primary_production;
mol m-3 s-1
> > net_new_primary_mole_productivity_of_carbon; mol m-2 s-1
> > were accepted after discussion in the 'CMIP5 ocean biogeochemistry
> > standard names' thread.
> >
> > However, the name
> > net_primary_mole_productivity_of_carbon_due_to_nitrate
> > is now being proposed for the second quantity because there is some
> > confusion as to the precise meaning of 'new' production.
> >
> > As the accepted names have not yet been added to the standard 
> name table
> > I think we could change them provided everyone agrees. Both names 
> should> be changed to be consistent with one another.  The phrase 
> 'due_to' is
> > reserved in standard names for describing a process, e.g.
> > 'due_to_convection', so 'due_to_nitrate' doesn't really fit that
> > pattern.  Would
> > 
>
net_primary_mole_productivity_of_carbon_from_nutrients_containing_nitrat> e
> > or just
> > net_primary_mole_productivity_of_carbon_from_nitrate_nutrients
> > be an accurate description?
> >
> > The first name could then be changed to
> > 
>
tendency_of_mole_concentration_of_particulate_organic_matter_expressed_a> 
s_carbon_in_sea_water_due_to_net_primary_production_from_{nutrients_cont
> > aining_nitrate}|{nitrate_nutrients}.
> >
> > Perhaps John Dunne could also comment on these ideas.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > Alison
> >
> > ------
> > Alison Pamment                          Tel: +44 1235 778065
> > NCAS/British Atmospheric Data Centre    Fax: +44 1235 446314
> > Rutherford Appleton Laboratory          Email: 
> [email protected]> Chilton, Didcot, OX11 0QX, U.K.
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [email protected] [mailto:cf-metadata-
> >> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Philip J. Cameronsmith1
> >> Sent: 22 April 2010 00:05
> >> To: CF-metadata email list
> >> Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] BGC output for CMIP5 simulations (fwd)
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> It appears that the wrong email address for the CF list was used 
> for>> some
> >> of the emails in the conversation below.  Hence, I am forwarding 
> the>> final email for the record.
> >>
> >> Best wishes,
> >>
> >>       Philip
> >>
> >>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >> -
> >> Dr Philip Cameron-Smith        Atmospheric, Earth, and Energy 
> Division>> [email protected]                   Lawrence Livermore 
> National Laboratory
> >> +1 925 4236634                 7000 East Avenue, Livermore, 
> CA94550,>> USA
> >>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >> -
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 13:15:39
> >> From: Keith Lindsay <[email protected]>
> >> To: Philip J. Cameronsmith1 <[email protected]>
> >> Cc: [email protected], Ernst Maier-Reimer <ernst.maier-
> >> [email protected]>,
> >>      Corinne Le Quere <[email protected]>,
> >>      Bruce Hackett <[email protected]>,
> >>      Thomas LOUBRIEU <[email protected]>,
> >>      Laurent Bopp <[email protected]>,
> >>      Pierre Friedlingstein <[email protected]>,
> >>      James Orr <[email protected]>, Laurence Crosnier
> > <lcrosn...@mercator-
> >> ocean.fr>,
> >>      Chris Jones <[email protected]>, cf-
> >> [email protected],
> >>      Karl Taylor <[email protected]>, Yann BARZIC
> >> <[email protected]>
> >> Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] BGC output for CMIP5 simulations
> >>
> >> On Wed, 21 Apr 2010, Philip J. Cameronsmith1 wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Keith, et al.
> >>>
> >>> By no3 I assume you mean the negatively charged nitrate ion 
> (NO3-).
> >> In which
> >>> case I recommend using 'nitrate' in the standard name instead of
> >> 'no3'.  This
> >>> will then be consistent with existing standard names, and avoid
> >> confusion
> >>> with the uncharged nitrate radical (NO3).
> >>>
> >>> In looking at the standard name table I think it would also be 
> more>>> consistent to use _due_to_ instead of _from_.  The latter 
> is mainly
> >> used for
> >>> physical directions, eg _into_sea_water_from_rivers, while the
> > former
> >> is
> >>> mainly used when when the quantity is changing _due_to_ another
> >> process, eg
> >>> tendency_of_air_temperature_due_to_shortwave_heating.
> >>>
> >>> Hence, I suggest you consider the following:
> >>>
> >>> net_primary_mole_productivity_of_carbon_due_to_nitrate
> >>>
> >>> Best wishes,
> >>>
> >>>    Philip
> >>>
> >>
> >> Philip,
> >>
> >> Thanks for the feedback. Your comments are on target. I propose 
> going>> with your
> >> standard name.
> >>
> >> Keith
> >>
> >> ******************************************************************
> >> Keith Lindsay                
> http://**www.**cgd.ucar.edu/oce/klindsay/>> email: 
> [email protected]   phone: 303-497-1722   fax: 303-497-1700
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CF-metadata mailing list
> >> [email protected]
> >> http://*mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
> > -- 
> > Scanned by iCritical.
> >
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> Dr Philip Cameron-Smith        Atmospheric, Earth, and Energy Division
> [email protected]                   Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
> +1 925 4236634                 7000 East Avenue, Livermore, 
> CA94550, USA
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> _______________________________________________
> CF-metadata mailing list
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> http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
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