Dear Ute I share some of Roy's concerns, and I'm puzzled by your remark:
> surface_eastward_sea_water_velocity and surface_northward_sea_water_velocity > include the velocity of water and ice together Please could you explain what that means? Are the ice and water moving with the same velocity or not? I think it may be OK to have a stdname for the "surface" velocity for sea water, because there isn't a unique coordinate with which to label the surface. For the same reason, we have a standard name of surface_temperature. For the "underice" velocity of sea water, if this is different from the surface velocity, it would be better to use the phrase at_sea_ice_base, for consistency with several existing standard names containing that phrase. Best wishes Jonathan ----- Forwarded message from "Lowry, Roy K." <[email protected]> ----- > Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 07:58:02 +0000 > From: "Lowry, Roy K." <[email protected]> > To: Ute Brönner <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" > <[email protected]> > CC: Tor Nordam <[email protected]>, Morten Omholt Alver > <[email protected]>, Petter Rønningen > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] standard names under ice velocity of water > > Dear Ute, > > > There is a precedent in CF for not giving separate Standard Names to a single > geophysical variable solely on the basis of its spatial distribution, the > classic example being air temperature where the meteorological standard > measurement '2m air temperature' has not been given its own Standard Name. > > > I am also strongly against separate Standard Names for 'surface' unless they > represent unique phenomena as has been argued for sea temperature and sea > surface velocity. > > > To me assigning separate Standard Names to currents in the top x metres of > water that happens to be under ice sets a very dangerous precedent. If you > decide to add extra water body layers to your model - say 10-50m, and 50-100m > would you want different Standard Names for the currents in each of these? > > > I can see two possible solutions to your problem of semantically > differentiating the two water body layers in your model. > > > 1) Use the long name parameter attribute > > 2) Include a z co-ordinate variable to describe each layer > > > A third option would be to do both (1) and (2). > > > Cheers, Roy. > > > > > Please note that I partially retired on 01/11/2015. I am now only working 7.5 > hours a week and can only guarantee e-mail response on Wednesdays, my day in > the office. All vocabulary queries should be sent to [email protected]. > Please also use this e-mail if your requirement is urgent. > > > ________________________________ > From: Ute Brönner <[email protected]> > Sent: 31 May 2017 08:24 > To: Lowry, Roy K.; [email protected] > Cc: Petter Rønningen; Morten Omholt Alver; Tor Nordam > Subject: RE: [CF-metadata] standard names under ice velocity of water > > > Dear Roy, > > > > I think it's because of the fact that in the upper layer (10m or so) we may > have all four of them : > > > > 1) surface_eastward_sea_water_velocity and > surface_northward_sea_water_velocity for water AND ice > > This is already a standard name with the definition that >"Water" means water > in all phases"< so we can't use it for water only. > > 2) eastward_sea_ice_velocity and northward_sea_ice_velocity is the one > we use for the ice only > > > > and > > > > 3) underice_eastward_sea_water_velocity and > underice_northward_sea_water_velocity we propose for the water under the ice > which is different from > > > > 4) eastward_sea_water_velocity and northward_sea_water_velocity which we > use for the water body that is not at the surface (as the layer has several > meters). > > > > We use the data for modelling of substances at the surface in the ice, so the > separation of these data is important to us. > > > > > > With kind regards / med vennlig hilsen, > > Ute > > > > Ute Brönner > > Research Scientist & Senior Project Manager > > > > Direct phone (+47) 998 98 987 > > P Consider the environment before printing. Less print-outs, more trees, > better planet. > > > > From: Lowry, Roy K. [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 30 May 2017 17:50 > To: Ute Brönner <[email protected]>; [email protected] > Cc: Petter Rønningen <[email protected]>; Morten Omholt Alver > <[email protected]>; Tor Nordam <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] standard names under ice velocity of water > > > > Dear Ute, > > > > I would prefer the same Standard Name for the currents in a body of water > whether or not it is covered by ice. What happens if you have a full year of > data from a position where there is only ice for part of the year? Would you > have a change of Standard Name for the water body currents when the ice melts? > > > > So, why not use 'eastward_sea_water_velocity' and > 'northward_sea_water_velocity'? > > > > Cheers, Roy. > > > > Please note that I partially retired on 01/11/2015. I am now only working 7.5 > hours a week and can only guarantee e-mail response on Wednesdays, my day in > the office. All vocabulary queries should be sent to > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. Please also use this > e-mail if your requirement is urgent. > > > > ________________________________ > > From: CF-metadata > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > on behalf of Ute Brönner > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > Sent: 30 May 2017 15:39 > To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > Cc: Petter Rønningen; Morten Omholt Alver; Tor Nordam > Subject: [CF-metadata] standard names under ice velocity of water > > > > Hei from Norway! > > Our institute produces metocean data including currents and ice with the > variables > > eastward_sea_ice_velocity and northward_sea_ice_velocity > surface_eastward_sea_water_velocity and surface_northward_sea_water_velocity > > The latter include the velocity of water and ice together: > "Water" means water in all phases, including frozen i.e. ice and snow. A > velocity is a vector quantity. "Eastward" indicates a vector component which > is positive when directed eastward (negative westward). > > We are also storing the velocity of water under the ice (which one could > assume as the difference of the two above, slightly more complicated I > think). What would be the standard name for that velocity? If there isn't any > yet, may we propose > underice_eastward_sea_water_velocity and > underice_northward_sea_water_velocity? > > With kind regards / med vennlig hilsen, > Ute > > Ute Brönner > Research Scientist & Senior Project Manager > > SINTEF Ocean > Environmental Technology, Monitoring and Modelling > www.sintef.no/DREAM<http://www.sintef.no/DREAM>, > www.sintef.no/OSCAR<http://www.sintef.no/OSCAR> > > OSCAR – Oil Spill Contingency and Response - > SINTEF<http://www.sintef.no/OSCAR> > > www.sintef.no<http://www.sintef.no> > > > > > DREAM – Dose-related Risk and Effects Assessment Model - > SINTEF<http://www.sintef.no/DREAM> > > www.sintef.no<http://www.sintef.no> > > > > > Direct phone (+47) 998 98 987 > Visiting: Brattørkaia 17C > Post: SINTEF Ocean AS, Postbox 4762 Sluppen, N-7465 Trondheim > > • Consider the environment before printing. Less print-outs, more trees, > better planet. > > > _______________________________________________ > CF-metadata mailing list > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata > > CF-metadata Info Page - mailman.cgd.ucar.edu Mailing > Lists<http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata> > > mailman.cgd.ucar.edu > > This is an unmoderated list for discussions about interpretation, > clarification, and proposals for extensions or change to the CF conventions. > > > > > ________________________________ > > This message (and any attachments) is for the recipient only. NERC is subject > to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and the contents of this email and any > reply you make may be disclosed by NERC unless it is exempt from release > under the Act. Any material supplied to NERC may be stored in an electronic > records management system. > > ________________________________ > ________________________________ > This message (and any attachments) is for the recipient only. NERC is subject > to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and the contents of this email and any > reply you make may be disclosed by NERC unless it is exempt from release > under the Act. Any material supplied to NERC may be stored in an electronic > records management system. > ________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > CF-metadata mailing list > [email protected] > http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata ----- End forwarded message ----- _______________________________________________ CF-metadata mailing list [email protected] http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
