Dear Alison et al.

I still find myself tripping over rainfall_mass. Why not rainfall_amount,
rainfall_flux or rainfall_rate? They would all be the same number, since it's
a *fraction*. Another possibility would be a reordering to
  mass_fraction_of_rainfall_falling_onto_surface_snow (1)
  mass_fraction_of_solid_precipitation_falling_onto_surface_snow (1)
We have many mass_fraction names, and consistency could be good.

Best wishes

Jonathan

----- Forwarded message from Alison Pamment - UKRI STFC 
<[email protected]> -----

> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 11:34:45 +0000
> From: Alison Pamment - UKRI STFC <[email protected]>
> To: 'Karl Taylor' <[email protected]>, Martin Juckes - UKRI STFC
>       <[email protected]>, "CF-metadata ([email protected])"
>       <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Precipitation fractions for LS3MIP
> 
> Dear Martin, Jonathan, Karl,
> 
> I have had another look at these two names and amended the definitions in the 
> light of the discussion.
> 
> fraction_of_rainfall_mass_falling_onto_surface_snow (1)
> 'The quantity with standard name 
> fraction_of_rainfall_mass_falling_onto_surface_snow is the mass of rainfall 
> falling onto snow as a fraction of the mass of rainfall falling within the 
> area of interest. The horizontal domain over which the quantity is calculated 
> is described by the associated coordinate variables and coordinate bounds or 
> by a coordinate variable or scalar coordinate variable with the standard name 
> of "region" supplied according to section 6.1.1 of the CF conventions. The 
> phrase "surface_snow" means snow lying on the surface.'
> 
> fraction_of_solid_precipitation_mass_falling_onto_surface_snow (1)
> 'Solid precipitation refers to the precipitation of water in the solid phase. 
> Water in the atmosphere exists in one of three phases: solid, liquid or 
> vapor. The solid phase can exist as snow, hail, graupel, cloud ice, or as a 
> component of aerosol. The quantity with standard name 
> fraction_of_solid_precipitation_mass_falling_onto_surface_snow is the mass of 
> solid precipitation falling onto snow as a fraction of the mass of solid 
> precipitation falling within the area of interest. The horizontal domain over 
> which the quantity is calculated is described by the associated coordinate 
> variables and coordinate bounds or by a coordinate variable or scalar 
> coordinate variable with the standard name of "region" supplied according to 
> section 6.1.1 of the CF conventions. The phrase "surface_snow" means snow 
> lying on the surface.'
> 
> Are these okay? If so I think they can be accepted.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Alison
> 
> ------
> Alison Pamment                                 Tel: +44 1235 778065
> NCAS/Centre for Environmental Data Archival    Email: 
> [email protected]
> STFC Rutherford Appleton Laboratory     
> R25, 2.22
> Harwell Oxford, Didcot, OX11 0QX, U.K.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: CF-metadata <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Alison 
> Pamment - UKRI STFC
> Sent: 11 June 2018 11:33
> To: 'Karl Taylor' <[email protected]>; Juckes, Martin (STFC,RAL,RALSP) 
> <[email protected]>; CF-metadata ([email protected]) 
> <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Precipitation fractions for LS3MIP
> 
> Dear Martin, Karl and Steve,
> 
> Thank you for the proposing these two names and the comments received so far.
> 
> fraction_of_rainfall_mass_falling_onto_surface_snow (1) 'The phrase 
> "surface_snow" means snow lying on the surface.'
> 
> fraction_of_solid_precipitation_mass_falling_onto_surface_snow (1) 'The 
> phrase "surface_snow" means snow lying on the surface. Solid precipitation 
> refers to the precipitation of water in the solid phase. Water in the 
> atmosphere exists in one of three phases: solid, liquid or vapor. The solid 
> phase can exist as snow, hail, graupel, cloud ice, or as a component of 
> aerosol.'
> 
> The names and units look fine.
> 
> Are these variables calculated over quite large areas? If so, would it be 
> appropriate to add the following sentence to their definitions:
> 'The horizontal domain over which the quantity is calculated is described by 
> the associated coordinate variables and coordinate bounds or by a coordinate 
> variable or scalar coordinate variable with the standard name of "region" 
> supplied according to section 6.1.1 of the CF conventions'?
> 
> This is what we do with names like land_ice_mass where the quantity might 
> represent the mass of a whole ice sheet, rather than something calculated in 
> a small lat-long grid box.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Alison
> 
> ------
> Alison Pamment                                 Tel: +44 1235 778065
> NCAS/Centre for Environmental Data Archival    Email: 
> [email protected]
> STFC Rutherford Appleton Laboratory     
> R25, 2.22
> Harwell Oxford, Didcot, OX11 0QX, U.K.
> 
> From: CF-metadata <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Karl Taylor
> Sent: 05 June 2018 17:03
> To: Steven Emmerson <[email protected]>; Juckes, Martin (STFC,RAL,RALSP) 
> <[email protected]>
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Precipitation fractions for LS3MIP
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I think in common usage "mass fraction" is the ratio of the mass of a 
> particular species to the total mass of all species combined (e.g., the mass 
> fraction of oxygen molecules in air). For the variable considered here, the 
> fraction refers to the ratio of the mass of as particular "species" (e.g., 
> rain) that falls on a particular surface (e.g., surface snow). This is enough 
> different from the standard usage that I think it would be wise to avoid 
> "mass fraction" in the standard name; thus, the suggestion:
> 
> fraction_of_rainfall_mass_falling_onto_surface_snow
> 
> Using "mass_fraction" here might lead some to wrongly jump to an 
> interpretation that this had something to do with the fraction of 
> precipitation that was falling as rain.
> 
> best regards,
> Karl
> On 6/5/18 7:55 AM, Steven Emmerson wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 3:31 AM, Martin Juckes - UKRI STFC 
> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
> We don't want the mass per unit area on snow divided by the mass per unit 
> area on the whole grid cell, but rather, as Jonathan has spelled out, the 
> mass on snow divided by the mass on the whole grid cell. Hence, I support 
> Karl's suggestion of using "mass" in the name, rather than "amount".
> 
> I believe that's called a "mass fraction". See Table 12 of 
> <https://www.nist.gov/pml/nist-guide-si-chapter-8-comments-some-quantities-and-their-units>.
>  
> 
> Regards,
> Steve Emmerson
> 
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