Dear Martin I agree with your reasoning, which is actually also the reason why incoming and outgoing were used for the TOA fluxes - they mean downwelling and upwelling but are more familiar terms (especially OLR), and they *don't* mean net down- ward or net upward.
Best wishes Jonathan ----- Forwarded message from Martin Juckes - UKRI STFC <[email protected]> ----- > Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2018 13:12:51 +0000 > From: Martin Juckes - UKRI STFC <[email protected]> > To: Alison Pamment - UKRI STFC <[email protected]>, > "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, > "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Final 17 terms for CMIP6 LS3MIP: Heat flux into > snowpack > > For the river water names we have one vote for > > inward_water_volume_transport_along_river_channel > > outward_water_volume_transport_along_river_channel > and one for > > incoming_water_volume_transport_along_river_channel > > outgoing_water_volume_transport_along_river_channel. > > > I will vote for incoming/outgoing. The qualifiers upward/downward are used to > express a sign convention, so that upward_flux_of_X is minus the downward > flux, and we use upwelling/downwelling to express fluxes associated with > photons moving in different directions. By association, I think it will be > clearer if we avoid the "inward" and "outward" here, > > > regards, > > Martin > > > > ________________________________ > From: Pamment, Alison (STFC,RAL,RALSP) > Sent: 04 July 2018 11:48:39 > To: Juckes, Martin (STFC,RAL,RALSP); [email protected]; > [email protected] > Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Final 17 terms for CMIP6 LS3MIP: Heat flux into > snowpack > > Dear Martin and Jonathan, > > Thank you both for the very useful discussion of these names. I agree with > Martin that the existing sensible_heat_flux names probably should become > turbulent_heat_flux names. There are only four of them, but I will address > those in a separate thread. > > For the LS3MIP heat flux name we now have: > tendency_of_thermal_energy_content_of_surface_snow_due_to_rainfall_temperature_excess_above_freezing > 'The phrase "tendency_of_X" means derivative of X with respect to time. > "Content" indicates a quantity per unit area.Thermal energy is the total > vibrational energy, kinetic and potential, of all the molecules and atoms in > a substance. The phrase "surface_snow" means snow lying on the surface. The > quantity with standard name > tendency_of_thermal_energy_content_of_surface_snow_due_to_rainfall_temperature_excess_above_freezing > is the heat energy carried by rainfall reaching the surface. It is > calculated relative to the heat that would be carried by rainfall reaching > the surface at zero degrees Celsius. It is calculated as the product > QrainCpTrain, where Qrain is the mass flux of rainfall reaching the surface > (kg m-2 s-1), Cp is the specific heat capacity of water and Train is the > temperature in degrees Celsius of the rain water reaching the surface. The > specification of a physical process by the phrase due_to_process means that > the quantity named is a single term in a sum of terms whic h together compose the general quantity named by omitting the phrase.' > > This name is accepted for publication in the standard name table and will be > added in the next update. > > For the river water names we have one vote for > > inward_water_volume_transport_along_river_channel > > outward_water_volume_transport_along_river_channel > and one for > > incoming_water_volume_transport_along_river_channel > > outgoing_water_volume_transport_along_river_channel. > > Martin, it looks as though you will have the casting vote! Which do you > prefer? > > Best wishes, > Alison > > ________________________________________ > From: CF-metadata <[email protected]> on behalf of Martin > Juckes - UKRI STFC <[email protected]> > Sent: 03 July 2018 12:02 > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Final 17 terms for CMIP6 LS3MIP: Heat flux into > snowpack > > > Dear Alison, Jonathan, > > > Thanks for these final suggestions. I agree with these proposals. I have a > reservation about the interpretation of "sensible heat flux" which was > mentioned in the discussion, but that does not need to delay approval of > these proposed terms which neatly avoid the problem. > > > The usage of "sensible heat flux" outside the standard name list consistently > refer to it as a thermodynamic property, not something which is specific to a > particular medium. In the existing standard names which include the phrase > "sensible_heat_flux" the descriptive text suggests that it applies to heat > flux through air alone, implicitly excluding any heat flux conveyed by > precipitation. It looks to me as though the wording is a reflection of the > state of models at the time the standard names were defined, when it may have > been reasonable to omit mention of transport of heat by precipitation and > equate sensible heat flux at the surface to turbulent heat flux at the > surface. As models can now, apparently, resolve the sensible heat flux > associated with falling rain, I can't see any reason for maintaining an > interpretation of "sensible_heat_flux" in standard names which conflicts with > the normal usage. > > > regards, > > Martin > > ________________________________ > From: CF-metadata <[email protected]> on behalf of Jonathan > Gregory <[email protected]> > Sent: 01 July 2018 18:27 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [CF-metadata] Final 17 terms for CMIP6 LS3MIP: Heat flux into > snowpack > > Dear Alison and Martin > > > tendency_of_thermal_energy_content_of_surface_snow_due_to_rainfall_temperature_excess_above_freezing > > I think this suggestion of Alison's is very good, to describe the rainfall > temperature flux as a change in heat content due to X rather than as the > problematic X heat flux. Thanks. > > > inward_water_volume_transport_along_river_channel > > outward_water_volume_transport_along_river_channel > > OR > > incoming_water_volume_transport_along_river_channel > > outgoing_water_volume_transport_along_river_channel. > > I prefer the latter pair still, but I don't mind. > > Best wishes > > Jonathan > _______________________________________________ > CF-metadata mailing list > [email protected] > http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata > _______________________________________________ > CF-metadata mailing list > [email protected] > http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata ----- End forwarded message ----- _______________________________________________ CF-metadata mailing list [email protected] http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
