Dear Alison Thanks - that's right.
Best wishes Jonathan ----- Forwarded message from Alison Pamment - UKRI STFC <alison.pamm...@stfc.ac.uk> ----- > Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 14:44:17 +0000 > From: Alison Pamment - UKRI STFC <alison.pamm...@stfc.ac.uk> > To: "cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu" <cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu> > Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] too many eddies in standard names > > Dear Jonathan, Martin and Karl, > > Martin's email about stresses at the liquid ocean surface reminded me that in > March we had also agreed to change the OMIP eddy_dianeutral_mixing names to > remove the word 'eddy' and amend the definitions accordingly: > > tendency_of_sea_water_conservative_temperature_expressed_as_heat_content_due_to_parameterized_eddy_dianeutral_mixing > -> > tendency_of_sea_water_conservative_temperature_expressed_as_heat_content_due_to_parameterized_dianeutral_mixing > > tendency_of_sea_water_potential_temperature_expressed_as_heat_content_due_to_parameterized_eddy_dianeutral_mixing > -> > tendency_of_sea_water_potential_temperature_expressed_as_heat_content_due_to_parameterized_dianeutral_mixing > > tendency_of_sea_water_salinity_expressed_as_salt_content_due_to_parameterized_eddy_dianeutral_mixing > -> > tendency_of_sea_water_salinity_expressed_as_salt_content_due_to_parameterized_dianeutral_mixing. > > The reference to eddies will be removed from the definitions and replaced > with the text suggested by Martin: > ' "Dianeutral mixing" refers to mixing across surfaces of neutral bouyancy. > "Parameterized" means the part due to a scheme representing processes which > are not explicitly resolved by the model.' > > These changes are accepted for publication in the standard name table and > will be added in the June update. > > Best wishes, > Alison > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Alison Pamment Tel: > +44 1235 778065 > NCAS/Centre for Environmental Data Analysis Email: > alison.pamm...@stfc.ac.uk > STFC Rutherford Appleton Laboratory > R25, 2.22 > Harwell Oxford, Didcot, OX11 0QX, U.K. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: CF-metadata <cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu> On Behalf Of Taylor, > Karl E. > Sent: 06 March 2019 19:59 > To: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu > Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] too many eddies in standard names > > Sounds fine to me. > Karl > > On 3/6/19 6:19 AM, Jonathan Gregory wrote: > > Dear Alison > > > > Yes, that's right, just the three dianeutral mixing terms. The names > > should have _eddy removed, and Martin's deletion of "eddy" from the > > definitions looks good to me. Sorry I didn't notice this before. Many > > thanks. > > > > Best wishes > > > > Jonathan > > > > ----- Forwarded message from Alison Pamment - UKRI STFC > > <alison.pamm...@stfc.ac.uk> ----- > > > >> Dear Jonathan, Martin, Karl, > >> > >> Thanks for discussing these names - I am always keen to make standard > >> names and their definitions as accurate as possible, including making > >> corrections if we don't get everything right in the original discussion. > >> If I understand correctly, it is now only the dianeutral mixing terms that > >> are being revisited and the other eddy terms introduced for OMIP should > >> stay as originally agreed - is that right? > >> > >> I am not an expert in these quantities, but I am happy to update the > >> dianeutral mixing definitions as suggested by Martin if others are in > >> agreement. > >> > >> Best wishes, > >> Alison > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Alison Pamment > >> Tel: +44 1235 778065 > >> NCAS/Centre for Environmental Data Analysis Email: > >> alison.pamm...@stfc.ac.uk > >> STFC Rutherford Appleton Laboratory > >> R25, 2.22 > >> Harwell Oxford, Didcot, OX11 0QX, U.K. > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: CF-metadata <cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu> On Behalf Of > >> Martin Juckes - UKRI STFC > >> Sent: 04 March 2019 19:36 > >> To: Jonathan Gregory <j.m.greg...@reading.ac.uk>; > >> cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu > >> Cc: stephen.griff...@noaa.gov > >> Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] too many eddies in standard names > >> > >> Hello Jonathan, > >> > >> > >> I agree that using "eddy" in terms which relate to vertical mixing is not > >> ideal. It is not entirely incorrect, but I I think most people associate > >> the term "eddy" with horizontal motions and so it is likely to cause > >> confusion. > >> > >> > >> The current definition: > >> > >> '"Eddy dianeutral mixing" means dianeutral mixing, i.e. mixing across > >> neutral directions caused by the unresolved turbulent motion of eddies of > >> all types (e.g., breaking gravity waves, boundary layer turbulence, etc.).' > >> > >> would then need to be replaced with something like: > >> > >> '"Dianeutral mixing" refers to mixing across surfaces of neutral bouyancy. > >> "Parameterized" means the part due to a scheme representing processes > >> which are not explicitly resolved by the model.' > >> > >> regards, > >> Martin > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> From: CF-metadata <cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu> on behalf of > >> Jonathan Gregory <j.m.greg...@reading.ac.uk> > >> Sent: 04 March 2019 17:52 > >> To: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu > >> Cc: stephen.griff...@noaa.gov > >> Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] too many eddies in standard names > >> > >> Dear Martin, Alison, Steve et al. > >> > >> You're quite right. I had completely forgotten this discussion. That > >> reduces my concern a lot! Thanks. On 19 May 2017 > >> (http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/pipermail/cf-metadata/2017/019440.html, > >> subject "New standard names for OMIP: physics" for this and related > >> emails) I agreed with Alison and Steve Griffies that parameterized > >> mesoscale advection (often Gent-McWilliams in ocean models) and > >> parameterized submesoscale advection should have "eddy" included > >> because they are contributions to parameterized eddy advection, and > >> that parameterized mesoscale diffusion (often called "isopycnal > >> diffusion" in ocean models) could also have eddy included by analogy. > >> However this email didn't talk about inserting "eddy" in the > >> dianeutral mixing names. Alison suggested this on 12 Oct 2017 > >> (http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/pipermail/cf-metadata/2017/019683.html) > >> and I didn't notice - sorry about that. There are three such names: > >> > >> tendency_of_sea_water_conservative_temperature_expressed_as_heat_cont > >> ent_due_to_parameterized_eddy_dianeutral_mixing > >> tendency_of_sea_water_potential_temperature_expressed_as_heat_content > >> _due_to_parameterized_eddy_dianeutral_mixing > >> tendency_of_sea_water_salinity_expressed_as_salt_content_due_to_param > >> eterized_eddy_dianeutral_mixing > >> > >> which as proposed did not contain "eddy". These quantities do not refer to > >> eddies in the sense of the other ones, and I suggest we should remove the > >> eddy in the standard names. I wonder what you all think. > >> > >> Best wishes > >> > >> Jonathan > >> > >> > >> ----- Forwarded message from Martin Juckes - UKRI STFC > >> <martin.juc...@stfc.ac.uk> ----- > >> > >>> Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2019 21:40:02 +0000 > >>> From: Martin Juckes - UKRI STFC <martin.juc...@stfc.ac.uk> > >>> To: Jonathan Gregory <j.m.greg...@reading.ac.uk>, > >>> "cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu" > >>> <cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu> > >>> Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] too many eddies in standard names > >>> > >>> Dear Jonathan, > >>> > >>> > >>> The CMIP6 Data Request uses the terms which are in the CF Standard Name > >>> list ... with "eddy_advection". > >>> > >>> > >>> The CF Standard Name editor link for one of the terms is here: > >>> <https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Enafy971fSF3mNJb5MObm3buH2y > >>> Am > >>> amMkRcj5h9WmJM/edit#slide=id.p> > >>> http://cfeditor.ceda.ac.uk/proposal/1795.<http://cfeditor.ceda.ac.uk > >>> /p > >>> roposal/1795> > >>> > >>> > >>> The email thread is here (the link from the editor is broken): > >>> http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/pipermail/cf-metadata/2017/019691.html > >>> .<http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/pipermail/cf-metadata/2017/019691.html > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> I'm not sure if I've followed all the details ... but it looks as though > >>> Alison proposed adding "eddy" and her proposal was accepted. > >>> > >>> > >>> regards, > >>> > >>> Martin > >>> > >>> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> From: CF-metadata <cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu> on behalf of > >>> Jonathan Gregory <j.m.greg...@reading.ac.uk> > >>> Sent: 01 March 2019 17:45 > >>> To: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu > >>> Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] too many eddies in standard names > >>> > >>> Dear Martin > >>> > >>> The names did get approved on the email list in the usual way. > >>> However, some- thing must have gone wrong somewhere. Either the > >>> names we asked to be approved were wrong (not the same as the ones > >>> in the papers, which is what we intended), or the names in the > >>> standard_name table aren't the ones that were approved - which seems > >>> unlikely. I'm quite prepared to find that it was my mistake some- > >>> where! Anyway, I think it could be put right with aliases. What do we > >>> have in the CMIP6 data request? > >>> > >>> Best wishes > >>> > >>> Jonathan > >>> > >>> ----- Forwarded message from Martin Juckes - UKRI STFC > >>> <martin.juc...@stfc.ac.uk> ----- > >>> > >>>> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2019 08:39:54 +0000 > >>>> From: Martin Juckes - UKRI STFC <martin.juc...@stfc.ac.uk> > >>>> To: "Taylor, Karl E." <taylo...@llnl.gov>, "cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu" > >>>> <cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu> > >>>> Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] too many eddies in standard names > >>>> > >>>> Hello Jonathan, Karl, > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I don't understand why this is considered an "error" in the standard > >>>> names. There are many cases where people have put terms in their GMD > >>>> papers and claimed that they are "CF standard names" without taking the > >>>> trouble to put them through the discussion and approval process of the > >>>> CF Convention. This is a clear procedural error which happened in > >>>> several MIPs ... we obviously need to improve communication on the > >>>> procedures. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> In answer to Karl's question: there are no approved or aliased terms of > >>>> the form "....mesoscale_advection" in the CF Standard Name list. The > >>>> approved terms consistently use the form > >>>> "mesoscale/submesoscale_eddy_advection". > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I didn't follow the discussion on these terms when they were added > >>>> .. Alison may be able to say more about why the "eddy" term is > >>>> included, > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> regards, > >>>> > >>>> Martin > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ________________________________ > >>>> From: CF-metadata <cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu> on behalf of > >>>> Taylor, Karl E. <taylo...@llnl.gov> > >>>> Sent: 27 February 2019 21:47 > >>>> To: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu > >>>> Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] too many eddies in standard names > >>>> > >>>> Hi Jonathan, > >>>> > >>>> One could conceivably want to distinguish between, for example, > >>>> > >>>> northward_ocean_heat_transport_due_to_parameterized_mesoscale_eddy_ > >>>> a > >>>> dvection > >>>> > >>>> and > >>>> > >>>> northward_ocean_heat_transport_due_to_parameterized_mesoscale_advec > >>>> t > >>>> ion > >>>> > >>>> or does "mesoscale" imply "eddy" and for that reason "eddy" can be > >>>> removed? If "mesocale eddy advection" and mesocale advection" are not > >>>> identical, we could leave the already defined variables as is and add a > >>>> companion set with "eddy" omitted. > >>>> > >>>> Of course for CMIP6, we would want to request only one of the two types > >>>> of advection; from your reference to GMD, I assume you want the quantity > >>>> without "eddy" in the name. > >>>> > >>>> best regards, > >>>> Karl > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 2/27/19 10:46 AM, Jonathan Gregory wrote: > >>>>> Dear Alison, Martin et al. > >>>>> > >>>>> I have noticed that several of the new ocean tendency diagnostics > >>>>> we have added to the standard name table for CMIP6 contain "eddy", but > >>>>> should not do. > >>>>> The word "eddy" should appear only in > >>>>> parameterized_eddy_advection, not in mesoscale advection, > >>>>> mesoscale diffusion, submesoscale advection or dianeutral mixing. > >>>>> I think _eddy should be deleted from all of the names listed > >>>>> below. I don't know how we got this wrong! The standard names appear > >>>>> correctly in the two relevant GMD papers. > >>>>> > >>>>> Best wishes > >>>>> > >>>>> Jonathan > >>>>> > >>>>> northward_ocean_heat_transport_due_to_parameterized_mesoscale_eddy > >>>>> _advection > >>>>> northward_ocean_heat_transport_due_to_parameterized_mesoscale_eddy > >>>>> _diffusion > >>>>> northward_ocean_heat_transport_due_to_parameterized_submesoscale_e > >>>>> ddy_advection > >>>>> ocean_meridional_overturning_mass_streamfunction_due_to_parameteri > >>>>> zed_mesoscale_eddy_advection > >>>>> ocean_meridional_overturning_mass_streamfunction_due_to_parameteri > >>>>> zed_submesoscale_eddy_advection > >>>>> ocean_tracer_biharmonic_diffusivity_due_to_parameterized_mesoscale > >>>>> _eddy_advection > >>>>> ocean_tracer_diffusivity_due_to_parameterized_mesoscale_eddy_advec > >>>>> tion > >>>>> ocean_tracer_laplacian_diffusivity_due_to_parameterized_mesoscale_ > >>>>> eddy_advection > >>>>> ocean_y_overturning_mass_streamfunction_due_to_parameterized_mesos > >>>>> cale_eddy_advection > >>>>> ocean_y_overturning_mass_streamfunction_due_to_parameterized_subme > >>>>> soscale_eddy_advection > >>>>> tendency_of_sea_water_conservative_temperature_expressed_as_heat_c > >>>>> ontent_due_to_parameterized_eddy_dianeutral_mixing > >>>>> tendency_of_sea_water_conservative_temperature_expressed_as_heat_c > >>>>> ontent_due_to_parameterized_mesoscale_eddy_advection > >>>>> tendency_of_sea_water_conservative_temperature_expressed_as_heat_c > >>>>> ontent_due_to_parameterized_mesoscale_eddy_diffusion > >>>>> tendency_of_sea_water_conservative_temperature_expressed_as_heat_c > >>>>> ontent_due_to_parameterized_submesoscale_eddy_advection > >>>>> tendency_of_sea_water_potential_temperature_expressed_as_heat_cont > >>>>> ent_due_to_parameterized_eddy_dianeutral_mixing > >>>>> tendency_of_sea_water_potential_temperature_expressed_as_heat_cont > >>>>> ent_due_to_parameterized_mesoscale_eddy_advection > >>>>> tendency_of_sea_water_potential_temperature_expressed_as_heat_cont > >>>>> ent_due_to_parameterized_mesoscale_eddy_diffusion > >>>>> tendency_of_sea_water_potential_temperature_expressed_as_heat_cont > >>>>> ent_due_to_parameterized_submesoscale_eddy_advection > >>>>> tendency_of_sea_water_salinity_expressed_as_salt_content_due_to_pa > >>>>> rameterized_eddy_dianeutral_mixing > >>>>> tendency_of_sea_water_salinity_expressed_as_salt_content_due_to_pa > >>>>> rameterized_mesoscale_eddy_advection > >>>>> tendency_of_sea_water_salinity_expressed_as_salt_content_due_to_pa > >>>>> rameterized_mesoscale_eddy_diffusion > >>>>> tendency_of_sea_water_salinity_expressed_as_salt_content_due_to_pa > >>>>> rameterized_submesoscale_eddy_advection > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> CF-metadata mailing list > >>>>> CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu > >>>>> http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> CF-metadata mailing list > >>>> CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu > >>>> http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> CF-metadata mailing list > >>>> CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu > >>>> http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata > >>> ----- End forwarded message ----- > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> CF-metadata mailing list > >>> CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu > >>> http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata > >> ----- End forwarded message ----- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> CF-metadata mailing list > >> CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu > >> http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata > >> _______________________________________________ > >> CF-metadata mailing list > >> CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu > >> http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata > >> > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > _______________________________________________ > > CF-metadata mailing list > > CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu > > http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata > > _______________________________________________ > CF-metadata mailing list > CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu > http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata > > _______________________________________________ > CF-metadata mailing list > CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu > http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata ----- End forwarded message ----- _______________________________________________ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
