I have been through the hoops of design environments, web development firms and programmers...
Most design folks across the board should quit what they are doing.. some are good because they have excellent color theory and shape arrangement... Some just use really pretty Tony Stone type stock images... Not many carry longevity of design and timelessness... That is what makes design good - long term beauty and functionality that is obvious.. Flash developers make bad web interface people look like mega-talented people... Even a good Flash developer is prone to making text 6 point, because he/she can and because it fits more and looks great on their 21 inch monitor... Interface elements that unfold and serve for multi functional items shouldn't be flat in appearance or appear abstract - they should work and look like things people are already familiar with... Now for Neilsen, I am inches shy of calling him a nutcase... He is an extreme example of bad design himself... He rips apart known sites in his book for examples then shows his own site work, which is an utter disaster... Does one need to be a designer to say what works and doesn't? Well no, but they should have some suitable examples that work, not text loaded geek droppings... When developing a website think of it like creating a movie... This analogy certainly is pretty exact for Flash... But it also readily applies to non-flashers too... To create a movie you need a writer, editors, actors, voice people, special effects, camera people, lights, sound and film editors. For a HTMl based site you need to: storyboard, write copy, outline, implement wireframe, fill in wireframe (program and HTMl markup), provide graphic dressup and develop middleware.. and if you are lucky, focus group study a segment of your users and modify as needed... Unfortunatly, most web projects are done incredibly under budget compared to what their expectations are... Causing technical people to fill roles and do work solely at the direction of the client or a graphic designer... A client who has their preferences in mind or a designer who wants the site to be pretty and print and work like paper.. Macromedia's new site is a radical deviation from 95% of the worlds expectation and basis of the web... They violate the sound concept of no more than 15% deviation from established standards... They also use their marketshare distribution concept of adopted Flash installation base to shove Flash into your browser... Would it be any more wise to push movies and sounds to you like some cheesy sites do? On the other side, the idea of more rich on demand Flash type services online to view media and distribute is upon us... Hopefully Macromedia will learn what we all did years ago- create a site for for each specific lot of people based on unique needs... whether it be sight impaired or those who use Netscape or IE... -paris ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Matt Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 13:18:39 -0800 >Joshua wrote: >>All due respect to Mr. Neilsen, but he's a boring old codger. > >Yes, he is an extremist. However you will be more successful at his extreme than at >the other end. Take his side and then deviate from it a bit and you'll be doing very >well. > >>usability, but a lot of his ideas are contrary to what has >>worked in print marketing for decades. > ><soapbox> > >Don't take this personally, but I see this as the classic mistake made by >design-oriented developers, especially those with a print media background. If I was >allowed to point to only one common error thats been around since Day 1 this would be >it. I did print advertising production for years, and one of the first, hardest >lessons I learned was that web and print are two entirely different animals, although >many - mostly marketing types and graphic artists - don't see it that way. The two >compare to one another very poorly on a number of fronts, not the least of which is >the necessary abandonment of the microscopic level of control we have over the output >seen by the customer/victim when using print media. > >Plus, navigation is a non-issue on an advertisement, brochure or book: turn the page. > Then there's the issue of attention span... an entirely different one on print >media, where you're strictly looking at grabbing an eyeball and holding onto it for a >few seconds. We all know the issues to consider are far more complex on the web. > >In print usability is a very limited concept relegated to being able to read the >thing. Thats not the case here. Consider for two seconds how successful a web site >is if its pretty and engaging, but no one can navigate thru it for God-Knows-How-Many >reasons that we could all easily recite. No matter what, aesthetics comes in well >behind usability on a piece of software, which is what web apps really are. > ></soapbox> > >------------------------------------------- > Matt Robertson, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com >------------------------------------------- > > >---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >From: "Stacy Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 15:04:26 -0500 > >>Checkout Alan Cooper...his books rule all and is much more practical for >>design purposes in my humble opinion... >> >>-Stace >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Joshua Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 12:19 PM >>To: CF-Talk >>Subject: RE: New Macromedia.com launched! >> >>All due respect to Mr. Neilsen, but he's a boring old codger. While >>usability is important it's NOT the be-all end-all of web design and >>development. I'm not sure how he became the de-facto lord of web >>usability, but a lot of his ideas are contrary to what has worked in >>print marketing for decades. The web is not JUST about information - >>people are inherently aesthetic, it's our universal language and visual >>language is stronger than any other. People pay more attention to visual >>design than they realize - it affects you on the subconscious level and >>honestly, your brain pays more attention to the visual than the content >>in the long run. When you dream you dream in pictures, icons and >>symbols, not pages and pages of black and white text with blue links. >> >>If Jacob Neilsen's logic was applied to design outside the web all those >>universally-understood handicapped signs would be replaced with 4 foot >>wide black and white banners that read HANDICAPPED. >> >>Joshua Miller >>Head Programmer / IT Manager >>Garrison Enterprises Inc. >>www.garrisonenterprises.net >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>(704) 569-9044 ext. 254 >> >>************************************************************************ >>************* >>Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, >>except where the sender states them to be the views of >>Garrison Enterprises Inc. >> >>This e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is >>addressed and contains information that is private and confidential. If >>you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any >>dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you >>have received this e-mail in error please delete it immediately and >>advise us by return e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>************************************************************************ >>************* >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Turetsky, Seth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:57 AM >>To: CF-Talk >>Subject: RE: New Macromedia.com launched! >> >> >>Let's get Jakob Nielsen to end this >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Jason Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 2:52 PM >>To: CF-Talk >>Subject: Re: New Macromedia.com launched! >> >> >>Yea but the issue with the mm home page is that it takes initially a >>while to load, then every click I make has this sluggishness to it, and >>most of the buttons create a page request which seems contradict >>macromedia flashes power of reducing http requests. >> >>On a few flash lists I am active on general consensus is negative... I >>definately share that..Although design is very nice and clean - it seems >>like last years trend. Perks and snappy elements such as the previous >>shortcuts worked MUCH faster, drop down lists on old site had some flare >>and animation to them - even things like on focus color change in the >>text box is removed. >> >>And those shortcuts - they are amazingly slow for me. I have on one of >>my sites drop downs pulling from a mere access database with coldfusion >>as server side that work substantially faster. >> >>Can't help but not be to thrilled. Yesterday - I also went in because I >>needed to research some technotes.. I gave up. I closed the site and >>visited some other resources. While I am sure that macr designers and >>flash developers worked hard and it is an all around nice app - I can't >>help but be sad about the change. I would have sent clients to >>macromedia home page on old site for them to see a glimpse of flash in >>user on hybrid pages.. Now I wouldn't send a client to review that home >>page. just my 02. I don't know what the focus was and this is beta - but >>I for one hope the second release is much faster and "wow". The site and >>it's features are just all around sluggish for me.. first request, and >>all requests after that. >> >>As for the interface remember what you last clicked - I don't mean to >>sound like an ass- but not ingenious. Useful occasionally but many of us >>flash people have been doing that for the last year through session vars >>and cookies. >> >>As a base architecture and layout - I think it shows potential if the >>speed can be seriously increased. >> >>but then again - it's just my 02 cents and who am I but a mere simple >>multiple visit daily user.. jay miller >> >>Christian Cantrell wrote: >> >> >>On Wednesday, March 5, 2003, at 10:59 AM, Benoit Hediard wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>They keep changing the groupings of things as well ... quite a >> >>pain this morning to find the Exchanges... had to use the site map.... >> >> >> >>Not very hard... >> >>Select "Product > ColdFusion MX" on the home page, and then you'll get >> >>a >> >>direct access to the exchange. >> >>(and it will remember this setting) >> >> >> >> >> >>This is actually a very important point. When you load a page >> >>containing one more more RIAs, it is very likely going to take longer >> >>than just loading a straightforward HTML page, however interacting with >> >>RIAs, in the long run, should save you several clicks. And the fact >> >>that it remembers your selection is pretty ingenious, so basically, I >> >>now have a slightly customized version of the Macromedia home page that >> >>contains links directly to not just the product I am usually interested >> >>in, but different pages within that product section (including the >> >>exchange). >> >> >> >>Christian >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
