I couldn�t have said it better myself. CFS with some VBStudio like tools, intellisense, breakpoints, etc....would just plain rock!!!!
tony weeg sr. web applications architect navtrak, inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.navtrak.net office 410.548.2337 fax 410.860.2337 -----Original Message----- From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 2:21 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: DWMX 2004 - Whats new for us? I would have to disagree. For example, a language centric tool could leverage strong server debug capabilities. Wouldn't you like to be able to open a page within the IDE, go through your application, have debug output in another panel of your IDE for that page and it's include files, be able to set break points, and trace variable values to reduce <cfabort> debugging needs, and come across an error, click on the error within your IDE, have it open the offending .cfm page in your IDE, and highlight the error. Wouldn't that be powerful? And doesn't that sound familiar (except that it works so clunkily and problematically in CFS...)? Divorcing the language from the tool does the developer a disservice, you can write CFML in notepad, but why should you? CFS is far superior with it's help/reference system alone (language specific), not to mention the color coding (language specific), and the toolbar (language specific), and so forth. What we need is a ColdFusion centric IDE, that also strongly supports the rest of the stuff we'll be reasonably expected to work within (xml, html, css, javascript). If it can be used for other things, great. But let's take the tools to another level, I can't understand why after 4 years, CFS and DWMX is still the best we can have to support CFML development specifically. - Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 2:01 PM Subject: Re: DWMX 2004 - Whats new for us? > I see it from exactly the opposite point of view. > > I am forever thankful Allaire (and Macromedia) have divorced the > language from the development environment. > > I'm glad I can use whatever editor I like to manipluate the source. > I've used textpad, CF Studio, Dreamweaver, Editplus, Ultradev, grep. > > I like (and use) CF Studio. It is my current favorite. But as with any editor, it will take the back seat at some point to my new favorite (whatever it is going to be). > > I also like that Studio isn't CF centric. I use it to edit perl, php, vbscript, bat files, cshell scripts, jsp, hts. > > It still isn't as good as Brief or the Turbo Pascal 5.0 editor (for > what they did at the time). But it is the best I have at the moment. And I would keep it for the extended search and replace even if nothing else worked. > > Just my opinion > Jerry Johnson > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/27/03 01:51PM >>> > You make some valid points. In fact your points support my arguments. > At the end of the day, we are still left with out a "ColdFusion Centered" IDE. We still have to make do with what's available. No doubt Dreamweaver leverages ColdFusion MX better than every thing else on the market but its still a 20% ColdFusion / 80% every thing else tool. We should have to do all this jumping around. Some of use using jedit, others you dreamweaver, some in HomeSite, and proably most still in Studio. > > As far as the survey. I would like to see the survey results. I want > to know how many serious CF developers have completely adopted. I want to see bar charts and pie graphs and stuff. Are they giving us what we asked for? > > Heck, they can just take the "application" panel in Dreamweaver, drop > it into Studio then Update the Studio interface to be consistant with other products in the family and tah dah.. there you have it. > > My point is we need a ColdFusion Centered IDE; one that MACR should be proud of. > > > > > > >On Wednesday, Aug 27, 2003, at 03:03 US/Pacific, dwayne wrote: > >> About 9 � 11 months ago I spent about 10 minutes of my time > >> responding to a macromedia�s ColdFusion survey and I have yet to > >> see the results. > > > >I would think that Red Sky (CFMX 6.1) was the result, for the most > >part... > > > > > >> Would you all agree, that us ColdFusion developers deserve some > >> love too!! > > > >Considering Allaire (and ColdFusion) might have withered away without > >Macromedia's investment in the technology, I'd say that CFers got > >quite a bit of love... > > > >> Sure ColdFusion MX sports a bunch of new features that are > >> fantastic and the as for old advanced features � they�re tighter > >> than ever. I'm loving cffunction, I'm all over cfc's, and > >> ColdFusion's ability to integrate with FLASH is the best thing > >> since the last "best thing". > > > >Excellent! Glad you're happy with that at least (especially since > >quite a few CFers beat on Macromedia over the 'promotion' of Flash to > >CFers and the whole OO issues around CFCs). > > > >> However, despite all of these wonderful improvements in the server > >> application, I'm still not convinced that they have committed to > >> providing us with a solid "Development Environment" that supports > >> the work habits of the sophisticated ColdFusion Developer. > > > >I think part of the problem here is that your chosen IDE becomes your > >second-nature way of working and it's really hard to change. Several > >high-profile CFers have made the jump to Dreamweaver and are very > >happy > >- and some aren't. Dreamweaver is certainly a very different tool to > >HomeSite / CF Studio. However, CF Studio used to cost $499 and now you > >can get it (as HomeSite+) for just $399 by buying Dreamweaver. And > >there's a 5.5 version in the works so it's not like Macromedia's > >abandoned anyone here: > > > > http://www.macromedia.com/software/homesite/ > > > >Me personally, I tried CF Studio back in 2001 and just couldn't get > >along with it at all. I figured that since Macromedia bought Allaire > >and we'd be using ColdFusion, I ought to use the dedicated IDE. I > >really tried. But I kept going back to Dreamweaver for so many > >things. And it wasn't really anything specific that I could put my > >finger on and say "You know, if CFS just did 'X' (or didn't do 'Y' > >every time I try 'Z') then I'd be happy..." No, it was just a general > >usability issue for me - CF Studio just didn't suit me. > > > >So I switched back to Dreamweaver (well, UltraDev 4, actually). Then > >Dreamweaver MX came out and swallowed (the higher-priced) UltraDev > >and I was still a happy camper! The CFC and Web Service browsers are > >very useful (I showed how to use the latter to quickly build CF > >applications that consume Web Services in a BACFUG presentation a > >while back). > > > >Then I switched to a Mac. Dreamweaver MX (6.0) was not as good on the > >Mac as on Windows so I struggled for a while and switched to jEdit. > >It wasn't ideal for me... I found it clunky and ugly and the CF > >support wasn't great but it was faster and more stable than DWMX 6.0 > >on the Mac. Then the 6.1 updater came out and totally solidified the > >Mac > >version: it was much faster and rock solid. So I switched, gratefully, > >back to DWMX as my primary CF IDE. > > > >I can't talk about Dreamweaver MX 2004 much (for obvious reasons!) > >but I'm using a recent (internal) build and I'm very happy with it. > >Site-less editing has probably been the biggest help in my workflow > >as well as the new Start Page with its list of recently edited files > >and various common operations. > > > >> Dreamweaver still seems to be an overkill designers solutions. > > > >Hmm, I think depends on your perspective. I'm certainly not a > >designer > >- I'm a hardcore developer - but Dreamweaver fits my workflow just > >fine. I don't use all of its features but I use enough to make it > >worthwhile (e.g., I live and die in "sites" even tho' I find the new > >site-less editing mode very useful). > > > >> and as for Contribute, it must have been the boses, daughter's > >> boyfriend cousin's idea. > > > >I'm a huge advocate of Contribute for quick updates to static sites > >(and there's a lot of those). I use Contribute all the time to > >maintain project intranet sites as well as parts of my personal > >website. My wife uses Contribute to manage her website (which I set > >up in Dreamweaver) - my wife is fairly typical of the sort of users > >Contribute is aimed at. You might also be interested to know that > >sections of macromedia.com are managed using Contribute - end-user > >content contribution for HTML sites is its forte. > > > >Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ > > > >"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive." > >-- Margaret Atwood > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
