Since they are two different products, I'd rather see CFMX in schools. - Calvin
-----Original Message----- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 10:38 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CFMX: Dissed by Breeze and FlashLite? I'll just throw in my .02 and say I believe Dave ( "The Disruptor" ) is correct. But, I wonder why, since BlueDragon *is* free, the effort isn't made to get that version of CF into schools?� And why, even without trying to push it into schools, schools don't use it? It is easier to start building applications with and I think students, especially those who aren't focused on a Computer Science degree, would flock to for building the web apps they use every day. Students learn as much from projects started on their own intiative as they do from what they learn in class, so, if CF from any source is available for free and makes it possible for "money-challenged" students to build some usable apps quickly for their use, they'll learn to love CF... But, students have much more time on their hands than money, so what's cheaper will almost always win... And it would be hugely popular with the "non-programmer" crowd who are web and graphic designers trying to build in functionality into their sites due to it's gently sloping learning curve.� I know about that curve, because I have no degree in computers at all, and I started out building static sites, then heard of Cold Fusion, found it digestable, and have been using it ever since. (Still using 4.5.2, however ;o) So, back to my main question:� Why even bother with MM's version of CF? Why not BlueDragon in the schools? Rick ---------------------------------------- From: "dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 6:37 PM To: CF-Talk <[email protected]> Subject: Re: CFMX: Dissed by Breeze and FlashLite? I don't know Bryan, seems fairly simple too me............ Wasn't saying anything about any kind of programming class, courses, studies, none, zero, ziltch!!! I was saying to use the basics of simple human nature (sticking with familiarity) to introduce coldfusion to a mass audience of GRAPHIC DESIGNERS who can then if they choose to dive into some programming as well already have the inclination to first and foremost give coldfusion a shot instead of the current standard which is PHP. By doing so you would very quickly see the stats for coldfusion sky rocket (since a lot of you are so into that crap) and it will also launch coldfusion into a much greater and wider audience. �I would even go a bit farther and say to have the cfm standard version free as well to get it into more hosting companies and get these people on good hosting plans just as easily as php. At which point these hosting companies would see the benefits of running cfm and a lot more would anny up and purchase enterprise which would increase in more sales and a broader wider audience and we could then tell all the nae sayers to shove it!! haha :) Sure it would result in more crappy coders but does PHP or .net not have crappy coders as well? Gawd, I can't wait for Micha to ruin this... haha Micha, just so we are clear on this.... I am saying a lot of these ppl will only need say a contact me page with actually coding in it, and I know you will want to run it across several clusters and rewrite it all in java and damn I can only imagine the 3000 lines of js you'd need to validate the 1 email field and be sure to write it in OOP with several custom tags to send the email out and have it on a secured server and all, but............. The point is to get it in front of them properly, so it's not like it is now where 99% of these ppl think coldfusion is SO EXPENSIVE for them to use, really, that's what they say, that's what they think and it's totally wrong. And then maybe when you have a bigger and more diverse user group like that, then whomever owns cfm will see the benefits of shoving it down our throats as often as they can. (aka your big front page adverts) "It's not that CFM should be taught as the first language.....just simply that it should be shown to students as an option." Not only that it's an option but that it's free to use to develop as well, which right now these ppl think it will cost them $1200 to even use. So it's a bit of proper education on their choices as well, which isn't happening currently. Ok you know I got whip out an analogy.. Say when you went to prom and your big brother gives a Trojan rubber, the next time you need a rubber ducky and you go to the store, what do you buy? Human nature says that you'd at least first look for a Trojan. Just like right now these students are given a PHP script, so when they start moving on into development the first thing they look for is PHP. So common basic sense says to replace that php script with a cfm script and if you don't get this drift lemme know and I will come over with my "get a clue" stick and beat you silly with it ;) " Dave the disruptor " LMFAO!!! thats a CLASSIC!! haha Gunna use that as my sig :) I haven't been 2 bad lately, since the burning of XP and the move to OS X, I am back to my regular goofy self. ---------------------------------------- From: "Bryan Stevenson" Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 4:36 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CFMX: Dissed by Breeze and FlashLite? arrrrggghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! Doesn't anybody but me get what dave (not Dave W.) is saying!!! It's not that CFM should be taught as the first langauge.....just simply that it should be shown to students as an option. "Today in class boys and girls we are going to have a look at CFML, PHP, and ASP as examples of languages to use for the web. Here's how you process a form in each and mail the results to someone" This is radically different that what Micha/Massimio/Dave W are on about. I think we'd all agree to what you bunch are saying..."CF is not to be used as an example of proper programming"...but that ain't what Dave the disruptor is on about ;-) Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP & Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. 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