On 2/6/06, Dale Fraser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Sorry, didn't even realise it was on cfjobs.
Ditto, but care factor really i mean if people complain about a mailing list being to "mail-centric" within one-offs... heads need to be pulled back in.. Yes I'm getting cranky in my old age ;) > One addition is that last time I sold the CF solution; I did it by touting > Adobe. Ie: It's an Adobe product, Adobe isn't going anywhere. Well, if you looked at the SAP Analytics sales pitch a while back, SAP kept ranting about how they listened to customers and now provide an interactive solution to allow customers to view various analytics... the word "FLEX" was never once mentioned, even though to those of us who can spot it a mile away, secretly knew. A follow up example is one of my projects i oversee is in the high figures, not once has the question about "what its built in' really come up - to be honest, i couldn't tell you. It solved the problems we had, our IT dept stated that it would be ideal if it conformed to their overall preferred technical solution but in the end, we are the customer and so we decide on the ultimate solution as we need to conduct our business. I've got a million more stories like the above and equally some that get too technical and in depth. Usually its the result of someone in the power seat having a IT background who wants to get their hands dirty when making the decision. At the end of the day, these folks typically need to be kept at arms-length as they can run the risk of buying into the technology further rather then solving the solution. That being said, most technology on the street now days meet certain principal criteria, and legacy systems have illustrated that we don't want to be tucked in some end-to-end solution that isn't agile enough to cope with modern demands (content syndication, interfacing to financial systems etc). > Still got questions, from the Chairman and others like "Who uses it", "Will > it be supported long term". I agree, those questions still get asked from the Executive level, yet typically they only get asked once a solution is put in front of them. If you were to base decision on solutions solely on the fact that it has to be JAVA 100% all the way or none at all, you end up limiting your options which can lead to having a small point of difference in your chosen market place. Coldfusion, typically from what i've observed over the years more or less focuses on either "sales channel delivery - aka Scart website mantra's" or they tend to pick on the gap between critical business grade systems and business intelligence (ie CRM's, Workflows, Reporting, Web based data entry etc). Usually though, in some of the cases i've seen in large companies, the only reason its been in place and continues to thrive is they've either bought some off the shelf system which was based in CF - which they further extended outwards, resulting in an cf evolution - or - XYZ developer took it upon themselves to master it, evolve it and then once they had runs on the board, manage and cultivate it throughout. It can start at the "coal face" but usually when it does, its backed by success not "hypothetical". It usually as we stated involves selling the total utopia, two years ahead rather then "what it can do now". Adobe will lend a lot of much needed credibility its way, as most in the power hierarchies still ask "Macromedia who?" > To which now answer "Telstra, ANZ" and "Yes it's an Adobe Product" > > From my experience, the selling is the hard bit. Once it's sold it's all > downhill, as it's easy and quick to produce results once your using it. Well, depends. I do 99% agree, but be careful. (Funny just had a conversation with MBlair about this just before) In that you can push for an adoption, and if it is a success then everyone suckles on the teet of success. If it fails, and you over-stepped your depth - its your butt sitting in the sling and you better have a fallback strategy ;) Coldfusion has a lot going for it, but unless you've actually used it hands on and convert someone who's used others "ie, it automates a lot of the framework work arounds you folks have in J2EE space.. dependency injection is simple as!!!" its simply "blah blah blah easy to use blah blah blah" Anywhoo, coffee high on slow decent. > Regards > Dale Fraser > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of TRACEY, Darren > > Sent: Monday, 6 February 2006 12:42 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Cc: [email protected] > > Subject: [cfaussie] RE: [cfjobs] Re: CF developer req'd for Brisbane > > (skills shortage ) > > > > > > OK. > > This conversation has gone away from being a job ad or specific discussion > > about a skill shortage in relation to a job ad. > > Lets move it to [email protected] where it now belongs, and keep > > cfjobs as a low volume place for jobs ads. > > > > Regards > > > > Darren Tracey > > Systems Analyst > > HR Systems and Fastrack > > Wealth and Corporate Systems > > Suncorp > > p: + 61 7 3232 4019 (x64019) > > f: + 61 7 3232 4133 > > e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > l: Lvl 12, 388 Queen St Brisbane QLD 4000 > > m: Suncorp IPC IT064, GPO Box 1453, Brisbane QLD 4000 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Nathan Drury [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Monday, 6 February 2006 10:34 AM > > > To: cfjobs > > > Subject: [cfjobs] Re: CF developer req'd for Brisbane (skills shortage ) > > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > I know this is CFJobs but I'll take the rant baton and keep running. > > > > > > I think it's a noble endeavour to attempt to increase the number of CF > > > developers in the workforce. If there aren't enough CF developers, > > > rates go higher and thus the cost of developing products using CF > > > increases, thereby decreasing the attractiveness of CF. So there has > > > to be enough developers available to maintain CF's attractiveness. > > > It's a simple matter of the company bottom line. However, while we're > > > at it we should also be promoting CF as much as we can. This doesn't > > > mean taking our soap box to Queen St with CF Bibles* in hand and > > > spewing forth about Event Gateways. But it does require us to have a > > > good understanding of CF's capabilities so that when an opportunity > > > does arise to promote CF as a solution or, conversely, to defend it > > > against ignorant misconceptions, we are in a position to do it justice. > > > > > > Shane's experience has been that CF projects are generally small and > > > uninteresting and Simon makes the salient point that it "is not the > > > language that makes anyones job boring but rather the work you > > > undertake". Before CF became underpinned by Java, the majority of the > > > work it was being used for was smaller web projects. Now, CF has some > > > amazing capabilities and it's up to us to learn and understand the > > > abilities and limitations of CF so that we can build apps that that go > > > beyond people expectations (ie. simple web apps). In the December > > > 2005 CFDJ, Simon Horwith has a great article titled "Misconceptions and > > > Myths About ColdFusion . . . debunked" > > > (http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/read/172573.htm) which makes some great > > > points and is worth a read. Scott said that when attempting to promote > > > CF it's better to "focus on the roadmap forward" and on the "end goal" > > > rather than the actual technology to get there, and I agree. However, > > > at some point the topic of technology will arise and here it is > > > critical that we can sell the benefits of CF and be prepared to debunk > > > any false preconceptions of CF. The growth in the capabilities of CF > > > over the past few years has really taken it out of the "simple web > > > apps" solar system into the "enterprise applications" universe. The > > > sooner IT overlords and there minions of underlings feel the power of > > > CF (oh, now I am going on!) the better it will be for all of us. > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Nathan > > > > > > * "Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Web Application Construction Kit" and > > > "Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Application Development" by Forta > > > et al. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --------- > > This e-mail is sent by Suncorp-Metway Limited ABN 66 010 831 722 or one of > > its related entities "Suncorp". > > > > Suncorp may be contacted at Level 18, 36 Wickham Terrace, Brisbane or on > > 13 11 55 or at suncorp.com.au. > > > > The content of this e-mail is the view of the sender or stated author and > > does not necessarily reflect the view of Suncorp. The content, including > > attachments, is a confidential communication between Suncorp and the > > intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, > > interference with, disclosure or copying of this e-mail, including > > attachments, is unauthorised and expressly prohibited. If you have > > received this e-mail in error please contact the sender immediately and > > delete the e-mail and any attachments from your system. > > > > If this e-mail constitutes a commercial message of a type that you no > > longer wish to receive please reply to this e-mail by typing Unsubscribe > > in the subject line. > > > > > > > -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com
