Wow,
So
The jobs went to India
The dot com companies closed
So there should be more people than jobs.
I actually think
The CF people have re skilled in something else like
.NET
They no longer look for CF positions cause there are
heaps of .NET ones
And I agree with the point about uni’s. There’s
only 2 ways that I see to get a CF developer skilled.
- You
teach them
- They
teach themselves
They don’t exactly walk out of uni with any
knowledge of CF, but this goes for lots of languages. RMIT teach C, C++, Java,
PHP
Regards
Dale Fraser
>Where are all the
good CF developers these days?
Well it all started back in Nineteen-dickety-two. We had to say
"dickety" because the Kaiser had stolen the wold "twenty".
I chased that rascal to get it back, but gave up after dickety-six miles.
what happened was everyone seemed to think computers were gunna take peoples
jobs and these computers were going to create them self and manage them self,
then media seemed to show every tom dick and harry were making several hundred
million $'s so all these kids thought "I'll go to uni and then get a job
at a company that simply has rolls of stock on the wall and ya simply go up and
grab as much stock as ya want"
then all these companies with rolls of stock on the wall went kaboom and people
were laid off all over the place, so then all these people were like "dam,
S$%# this is whacked!! I'm not going to become a millionaire overnight
dam" and stopped enrolling in uni all over the world, but some still
enrolled but the qty of enrolling students declined every year.
Then some bright spark said every job is going to India
cos India
is this high tech hub with 1billion + people, so then less and less students
enrolled in uni and continues today.
Most didn't look at the stats and realise most of India is poor, less then 5%
even have access to a computer and out of the 5% that do, less then 1% would
even have heard of the term HTML, and with all these new jobs that were
supposedly going to India no1 stopped to think "hey how did India happen
to get millions of highly skilled highly *experienced* developers? were they
all just sitting there the last 10 years doing nothing? or were there all these
massive companies they all got there experience at and now those companies
vanished and all the devs stayed behind waiting for us?"
Then someone else said "lets put all call centres in India, there is
millions of trained English speaking people there with computer skills"
now thing was they only needed about 6 months worth of uni to have skills for a
call centre, so then main issue was all these call centres paid good money for
India, so all these Indian kids enrolled in uni there to become programmers but
after 6 months they get offered a lot of money to simply answer phones all day.
But there is some brilliant devs in Indian uni's who want to earn a lot money
and are really smart, so they study very hard at uni, then relocate to Europe
or the US.
Then some smart (sarcasm) manager says "lets do everything there everyone
is going well in India, although I know nothing about computers but since I
read in a magazine about other people doing it then everyone is doing it".
Kind of like the housing boom, ya don't have people running around saying
"man I got into the whole housing thing and its burnt my balls off"
so anyway ya would only hear success stories.
So there is massive IT skills shortages in India even greater then the
manufacturing skills shortages in China, so then many companies realised they
needed to employ locally
Then the economy went really strong in many of the already developed nations as
well as the developing, and all these big companies said we need to invest in
IT,
(I ain't even gunna mention how lame ass Web 2.0 garbage is, by my version
system we are up to Web 15.1alpha)
So then all these big companies started employing and seen there wasn't many
devs, they paid up big and got what they wanted or still had trouble but had a
little more success.
Then Joe Dotnet said "why isn't there any good dotnet developers they must
all be doing that open source crap" then Joe Php said why isn't
there any good open source devs they must all be doing bill gates (along with
using his dotnet).
Thing is there is a lot of good developers out there, but there is a lot of
jobs out there.
IT industry isn't the only industry facing shortages the trades/mining industry
is the same.
most of my friends are tradesman in the mining industry, avg wage for them is
roughly $102k AUD no need for degree and ya get 4 years of paid training
(apprenticeship) and ya job can't be outsourced over sea's to highly skilled
highly experienced *with no experience* individuals, many of these are quite
smart, they chose to be tradesman in these fields cos they were after the cash,
these same people in the mid 90's would have went into IT.
So employers need to offer greater incentives, problem is not all
employers can pay more so they need to offer better perks etc.
It's like the dotcom boom is back, it has nothing to do with Web 15.1Alpha, it
simply has to do with the front end (industry) growing and the back end (# of
people joining the industry) getting smaller, look at the "quite
public" Uni enrollments for IT, they have declined every year for close to
6 years. but companies have grew and more jobs been created.
Companies with good work environments and reputation will keep there employee's
longer companies offering below market rates and poor management will have
greater trouble.
Companies willing to throw large sums of cash around but not willing to
advertise it will also have trouble.
Companies who have resources to train up jnr devs will do well.
Companies that offer perks and pay top $ will do far better then anyone else,
unfortunately not every company can do that but some can.
my new employer for example put on heaps of devs but couldn't get enough in
there own country so they searched for devs over seas (found me), offered them
free lunch everyday, games room, gym, training, relocation costs (flights,
couple of months free accom etc) and way above market rates.
The above reasons are why people can't get good employee's
so the only way ya can do it from what I can see is the following.
1. Luck
2. advertise basic skills (knowledge of coldfusion) and simply interview
everyone that applies and hope ya find someone who is fairly good but may have
not applied to previous ads cos they were missing one of the skills on ya ad
(my old position got advertised as Java being a skill, instead of _javascript_,
so be careful of ya ads)
3. train a OO COBOL developer lol
4. offer large wads of cash
5. offer perks eg. flexible hours, training etc
In times like these employers need to sell the role to the employee, where as
in times of more devs then jobs the employee really needs to sell him self
(although everyone should always be selling them self).
If I was on the market and seen a job ad that said
"wanted developer with xx skills"
then seen another ad that said "
"we would like a dev with XX skills to work for a XX company in the XX
industry doing XX we offer a good work environment and XX and we are humans (or
like Grudens ad use the S word) cool shit etc."
I'd go for the 2nd, as the first job sounds like they are after a product that
is easy to get and expendable, the latter sounds like they want a person that
can code etc
>We've had a job ad up for 2 weeks advertising a CF developer position and
have only had a few responses.
Do you have the resources to train the "few responses"
>I remember the days when you'd get 40-50 applications for every position?
Well "the days" isn't today, no language out there is like this.
Although.... I heard that MS have hired a secret assassin squad of ninja
monkeys that are going around abducting the competition and throwing the people
threw human blenders (makes ya think twice next time ya use "blood & bone"
on the garden)
Mike you wanna jump in and say "CF is dead there is no jobs out
there?"
So to sum up... there is heaps of good CF devs, but they are obviously Happy CF
devs or waiting for something spectacular to come up.
Now employers need to work out a way to poach them and/or create (see Create)
them.
Employers need to sell the role.
As for your role Ryan, I haven't looked at the ad yet, so I'm not writing the
above in response to your ad, just your questions.
M@
Who hopes the CF market is still as healthy here when he gets back from working
over sea's
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