> They don't exactly walk out of uni with any knowledge of CF man, I tried, y'know. gave it a really good shake in 2003 teaching CF to about 120 students. only 2 that I know of ever took it further (g'day RobS).
but then I was gone and they switched to PHP, claiming market relivance or some bull. it was a *multimedia* training college too - what with remoting, etc it's come full circle... this has all been touched on before: http://groups.google.com/group/cfjobs/browse_frm/thread/d4338bf71cc2915f http://groups.google.com/group/cfjobs/browse_frm/thread/6d3e15d9baad3458 http://groups.google.com/group/cfjobs/browse_frm/thread/dc2e85f4ef609064 if you've got some great ideas that are easy to do (we're all busy working our own jobs, yes?)....etc. On 5/5/06, Dale Fraser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Wow, > > > > So > > > > The jobs went to India > > The dot com companies closed > > > > So there should be more people than jobs. > > > > I actually think > > > > The CF people have re skilled in something else like .NET > > They no longer look for CF positions cause there are heaps of .NET ones > > > > And I agree with the point about uni's. There's only 2 ways that I see to > get a CF developer skilled. > > > > You teach them > They teach themselves > > > > They don't exactly walk out of uni with any knowledge of CF, but this goes > for lots of languages. RMIT teach C, C++, Java, PHP > > > > Regards > > Dale Fraser > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of M@ Bourke > Sent: Thursday, 4 May 2006 8:38 PM > > To: [email protected] > Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Where have all the CF developers gone? > > > > > > > > >Where are all the good CF developers these days? > > Well it all started back in Nineteen-dickety-two. We had to say "dickety" > because the Kaiser had stolen the wold "twenty". I chased that rascal to get > it back, but gave up after dickety-six miles. > what happened was everyone seemed to think computers were gunna take > peoples jobs and these computers were going to create them self and manage > them self, then media seemed to show every tom dick and harry were making > several hundred million $'s so all these kids thought "I'll go to uni and > then get a job at a company that simply has rolls of stock on the wall and > ya simply go up and grab as much stock as ya want" > > then all these companies with rolls of stock on the wall went kaboom and > people were laid off all over the place, so then all these people were like > "dam, S$%# this is whacked!! I'm not going to become a millionaire overnight > dam" and stopped enrolling in uni all over the world, but some still > enrolled but the qty of enrolling students declined every year. > > Then some bright spark said every job is going to India cos India is this > high tech hub with 1billion + people, so then less and less students > enrolled in uni and continues today. > Most didn't look at the stats and realise most of India is poor, less then > 5% even have access to a computer and out of the 5% that do, less then 1% > would even have heard of the term HTML, and with all these new jobs that > were supposedly going to India no1 stopped to think "hey how did India > happen to get millions of highly skilled highly *experienced* developers? > were they all just sitting there the last 10 years doing nothing? or were > there all these massive companies they all got there experience at and now > those companies vanished and all the devs stayed behind waiting for us?" > > Then someone else said "lets put all call centres in India, there is > millions of trained English speaking people there with computer skills" now > thing was they only needed about 6 months worth of uni to have skills for a > call centre, so then main issue was all these call centres paid good money > for India, so all these Indian kids enrolled in uni there to become > programmers but after 6 months they get offered a lot of money to simply > answer phones all day. > > But there is some brilliant devs in Indian uni's who want to earn a lot > money and are really smart, so they study very hard at uni, then relocate to > Europe or the US. > > Then some smart (sarcasm) manager says "lets do everything there everyone > is going well in India, although I know nothing about computers but since I > read in a magazine about other people doing it then everyone is doing it". > Kind of like the housing boom, ya don't have people running around saying > "man I got into the whole housing thing and its burnt my balls off" so > anyway ya would only hear success stories. > > So there is massive IT skills shortages in India even greater then the > manufacturing skills shortages in China, so then many companies realised > they needed to employ locally > > Then the economy went really strong in many of the already developed > nations as well as the developing, and all these big companies said we need > to invest in IT, > (I ain't even gunna mention how lame ass Web 2.0 garbage is, by my version > system we are up to Web 15.1alpha) > So then all these big companies started employing and seen there wasn't > many devs, they paid up big and got what they wanted or still had trouble > but had a little more success. > > Then Joe Dotnet said "why isn't there any good dotnet developers they must > all be doing that open source crap" then Joe Php said why isn't there any > good open source devs they must all be doing bill gates (along with using > his dotnet). > Thing is there is a lot of good developers out there, but there is a lot of > jobs out there. > > IT industry isn't the only industry facing shortages the trades/mining > industry is the same. > most of my friends are tradesman in the mining industry, avg wage for them > is roughly $102k AUD no need for degree and ya get 4 years of paid training > (apprenticeship) and ya job can't be outsourced over sea's to highly skilled > highly experienced *with no experience* individuals, many of these are quite > smart, they chose to be tradesman in these fields cos they were after the > cash, these same people in the mid 90's would have went into IT. > > So employers need to offer greater incentives, problem is not all > employers can pay more so they need to offer better perks etc. > It's like the dotcom boom is back, it has nothing to do with Web 15.1Alpha, > it simply has to do with the front end (industry) growing and the back end > (# of people joining the industry) getting smaller, look at the "quite > public" Uni enrollments for IT, they have declined every year for close to 6 > years. but companies have grew and more jobs been created. > > Companies with good work environments and reputation will keep there > employee's longer companies offering below market rates and poor management > will have greater trouble. > Companies willing to throw large sums of cash around but not willing to > advertise it will also have trouble. > Companies who have resources to train up jnr devs will do well. > > Companies that offer perks and pay top $ will do far better then anyone > else, unfortunately not every company can do that but some can. > my new employer for example put on heaps of devs but couldn't get enough in > there own country so they searched for devs over seas (found me), offered > them free lunch everyday, games room, gym, training, relocation costs > (flights, couple of months free accom etc) and way above market rates. > > The above reasons are why people can't get good employee's > so the only way ya can do it from what I can see is the following. > 1. Luck > 2. advertise basic skills (knowledge of coldfusion) and simply interview > everyone that applies and hope ya find someone who is fairly good but may > have not applied to previous ads cos they were missing one of the skills on > ya ad (my old position got advertised as Java being a skill, instead of > javascript, so be careful of ya ads) > 3. train a OO COBOL developer lol > 4. offer large wads of cash > 5. offer perks eg. flexible hours, training etc > > In times like these employers need to sell the role to the employee, where > as in times of more devs then jobs the employee really needs to sell him > self (although everyone should always be selling them self). > If I was on the market and seen a job ad that said > "wanted developer with xx skills" > then seen another ad that said " > "we would like a dev with XX skills to work for a XX company in the XX > industry doing XX we offer a good work environment and XX and we are humans > (or like Grudens ad use the S word) cool shit etc." > I'd go for the 2nd, as the first job sounds like they are after a product > that is easy to get and expendable, the latter sounds like they want a > person that can code etc > > > >We've had a job ad up for 2 weeks advertising a CF developer position and > have only had a few responses. > Do you have the resources to train the "few responses" > > >I remember the days when you'd get 40-50 applications for every position? > > Well "the days" isn't today, no language out there is like this. > Although.... I heard that MS have hired a secret assassin squad of ninja > monkeys that are going around abducting the competition and throwing the > people threw human blenders (makes ya think twice next time ya use "blood & > bone" on the garden) > > Mike you wanna jump in and say "CF is dead there is no jobs out there?" > > So to sum up... there is heaps of good CF devs, but they are obviously > Happy CF devs or waiting for something spectacular to come up. > Now employers need to work out a way to poach them and/or create (see > Create) them. > Employers need to sell the role. > > As for your role Ryan, I haven't looked at the ad yet, so I'm not writing > the above in response to your ad, just your questions. > > M@ > Who hopes the CF market is still as healthy here when he gets back from > working over sea's > > > > > > > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. 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