Stephen, Another place you can look for support picking up ColdSpring and Transfer is UGTV:
http://www.carehart.org/ugtv Search for either and you'll find about 4 presentations each of about an hour in length that should give you a boost. There is also a preso from Sean Corfield on Design and Patterns in ColdFusion (search for patterns). Sean's factories presentation will give you a good overview of the problem ColdSpring solves for you (search for either factories or ColdSpring) and it may also get you started using ColdSpring ... can't remember. And there are a few presentations from Mark Mandel himself on Transfer. I know it takes a little while for it all to sink in. You'll get it. Just dig in and hang on until you do! :-) On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 3:51 AM, Mark Mandel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Appointed Nando the possibly-official Transfer ambassador of goodwill :oD > > Mark > > On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 12:01 PM, Nando <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm not sure who has sample apps, but the first places i'd look would be > > http://corfield.org and at Brian Kotek's site. Transfer has a google > groups > > mailing list. You might also try to work up a simple sample site using > > ModelGlue. There used to be a great resource called Quick Start that > walks > > you through it. > > > > Full-on object orientation solves problems you most likely don't have. > You > > can dig into the pattern literature and eventually find that out for > > yourself like I did, and then just settle into using the OO frameworks, > or > > simply use the frameworks from the very beginning. Transfer basically > > creates your business objects, DAOs and provides basic gateway services > for > > you - saving you from writing a lot of code. If you want, write those > > objects once with a single simple table to get it out of your system and > > then use Transfer from then on. > > > > Coldspring creates object instances for you, particularly the persistent > > ones in application scope, and wires them together. You can try and do > that > > on your own to get it out of your system, create a Factory whose job it > is > > to CreateObjects ... then sit down and try and work out how to get > PersonDAO > > into Person ... no, let's see ... ummm PersonService should have an > instance > > of PersonDAO ... no ... ummm, maybe the Factory has instances of all > > services and creates them on application start ... wait, how should I do > > this. Should I pass an instance of the Factory into each of the services > so > > it can create a DAO in them? or should the Factory create the DAO and > pass > > it into PersonService when it creates PersonService ... what's better? I > > don't know! > > > > Think about that in circle for about 2 or 3 hours. Or if you want, start > > asking everybody on the lists how to do it "properly" so you get a > variety > > of viewpoints ... and then drop it and just use ColdSpring and > Transfer, > > cuz that's where you'll most likely wind up anyway if you spend 6 - 8 > months > > trying to really get OO and develop your own architecture. > > > > I think it's important to have a simple overview so you understand the > > basics of objects and functions and composition (one object functioning > > inside another) and the rest of the basics like encapsulation, etc - but > I > > would focus on the frameworks if your goal is to be productive, > particularly > > Transfer. > > > > ;-) Nando > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 11:11 PM, Stephen Judd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > Alan: I like the sound of your approach. Right now, I created > manager > > cfcs (service) in the application scope for the calendar and event > objects, > > and also have gateways, daos, and beans. I think I'll need to tackle > > Coldspring, as I can see things getting messy with dependencies, and I > > assume my service cfcs shouldn't be calling another service in the > > application scope, especially if this may end up Flexified someday. > > > > > > Nando: I've been using Fusebox for some time, this is my first > attempt at > > a fully OO version. Do you have any good pointers for integrating > > Coldspring and Fusebox....I've found some info, but no good sample apps > or > > tutorials? > > > > > > All: Thanks for the words of advice. I started out with Fusebox > quite a > > while ago, so figured I'd use it in an OO way so there'd be one less > thing > > to learn (though I did consider MG and Mach-ii). I'm trying to do this > > first one without ORM or code generators, so I have a better feel for > what's > > going on. I think I'll have to pick up Coldspring, though. > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 5:48 PM, Adam Haskell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > > Wise words Nando. Just this morning I was contemplating "porting" > Head > > First OOA&D to ColdFusion. By porting I mean taking examples and > exercises > > and putting them into CF and augmenting chapters and explanations to fit > > ColdFusion better. I thought it would be interesting to see what came > out. > > I have a theory that I would have a hard time get some OO design > concepts > > across accurately and other parts I would completely remove. > > > > > > > > I think learning basic OO Analysis concepts prior to picking up an > OO > > centric framework is helpful though. I'm not saying take the deep dive > but > > maybe get the basics down before diving into the framework. Certainly in > > light of the initial question in this thread I think a framework would > be > > helpful. > > > > > > > > Adam Haskell > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Nando <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Transfer makes it very easy to write OO applications. The time you > > spend learning it is very well invested in my opinion. > > > > > > > > > > It's also important to realize from the very beginning if you have > no > > OO experience that ColdFusion is a unique environment because it is > loosely > > typed and because of the stateless nature of HTML based web > applications. > > Most books you will read on OO simply don't apply very well to > ColdFusion at > > all - and that's a significant part of the confusion right there. I'm > not > > sure if this is a correct statement, but if I had to do it again, I > would > > focus on learning Coldspring, Transfer and ModelGlue or Fusebox or Mach > II. > > I wouldn't make "learning OO" primary, but leave it secondary as you > gain > > experience, following a few sample applications. I think you'll progress > a > > lot faster that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 6:43 PM, Adam Haskell <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think I can give you an answer that is right you have to > > make that decision. What I do with my developers working on these types > of > > design decisions is give them some questions to ask themselves in hope > that > > it will get them to an answer. At the end of the day, especially when > you > > start, you will regret your decision for one reason or another so you > want > > to mitigate as much risk of making the worst decision by asking some > > questions... Remember you must answer these I am not saying yes or no to > any > > of them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Have the event object just query the database and populate the > > array itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > Is your event object becoming too smart at this point? Should it > > know where calendars live? Where does the rest of your persistence > > interaction live? How will you write a test case to test your object's > > behavior without relying on a database? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Have the event object ask the calendarManager for the array. > > > > > > > > > > > > How will this impact your coupling? Is this impact acceptable? > Is > > there an alternative to this approach that could impact it differently? > How > > will you write a test case to test your object's behavior without > relying on > > a database? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Pass the array into the constructor when creating the event > object. > > > > > > > > > > > > How big is this array? Will all of these objects be used or will > the > > creation be wasted? Are there alternative constructors? Can my object > exist > > and work without this array? How will you write a test case to test your > > object without relying on a database? > > > > > > > > > > > > The only one I have a clear direction for is the last question > "Can > > my object exist and work without this array?" If the answer to that is > no > > then I would strongly recommend going this direction. From the sounds of > it > > that is not the case. Note I have a repeat question in all of them, "How > > will you write a test case to test your object's behavior without > relying on > > a database?" Part of the benefit of TDD, objects that are hard to test > tend > > to be objects that violate design principles. Easy testing objects tend > to > > be good citizens. > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone else have any good architecture questions Steve can > ask > > himself to help him make the decision? > > > > > > > > > > > > Adam Haskell > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Stephen Judd > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm taking my first plunge into a fully OO application and > have > > what I think is a simple question, though I haven't found the answer > through > > searching: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm developing an events calendar. An event can be on more > than > > one calendar, so when I display an individual event, I want to also > display > > which calendars it's on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, when I construct my event object (I know, confusing name) > > what's the best way to grab an array of the calendars it occurs on? I'm > > thinking the array could be a property of the event, but I'm not sure > that > > my event should be asking the calendarManager for the array directly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Options I've contemplated: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have the event object just query the database and populate the > > array itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have the event object ask the calendarManager for the array. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pass the array into the constructor when creating the event > > object. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any thoughts? is this where I need to start using and > learning > > ColdSpring? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Nando M. Breiter > > > > > The CarbonZero Project > > > > > CP 234 > > > > > 6934 Bioggio > > > > > Switzerland > > > > > +41 76 303 4477 > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Nando M. Breiter > > The CarbonZero Project > > CP 234 > > 6934 Bioggio > > Switzerland > > +41 76 303 4477 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > -- > E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > W: www.compoundtheory.com > > > > -- Nando M. Breiter The CarbonZero Project CP 234 6934 Bioggio Switzerland +41 76 303 4477 [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CFCDev" group. 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