Ah… PL/I. Spelt with a /I, not with a 1. The salesmen were most insistent about that. But no – I wouldn't exactly call it "unsuccessful" …
Salesmen-driven designs invariably succeed at what they're designed to do: sell products. That's not to say they always work. Back in the 70s when PL/I emerged, programming depts had two enduring problems: (a) productivity, (b) recruitment. IBM salesmen sold PL/I (a smash-together of Cobol and Fortran) on the basis that even your coffee ladies could use it. So you could fire all your *über*-expensive, *unter*-productive ASM programmers, who were kept on-hand to fill the gaps left by your Cobblers. (Banks and Insurance companies didn't use Fortran. Only engineers. And serious math had no place in finance –haha! Why, accountants don't even believe in minus numbers!) Product Test at IBM Hursley put together a tool called the Syntax Machine (you fed it syntax and it spat out wffs) which they used to compile random PL/I programs. They were then able to show that PL/I was hopelessly ambiguous and inconsistent. As you can imagine they got bags of gratitude for that! But some sinners are redeemed in their children. PL/I… PL/360… BCPL… C (the software counterpart of the reduced instruction set)… The best thing about C was its neat preprocessor. This enabled any fool who thought they could do better to come up with their own language. Are you thinking what I'm thinking? J with a "C" preprocessor?… say, now! On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 at 16:13, 'Rodney Nicholson' via Chat < [email protected]> wrote: > And do not forget their efforts in software! They invented - and tried to > inflict on everyone, including me - that incredibly stupid and incredibly > unsuccessful language, giving it the arrogant name PL1. Having learned it > at the University of Toronto, I discovered there was no place within > hundreds of miles to use it! Meanwhile they ignored the wonderful APL, > hatched in their own nest. > > Yes. You are right. Thinking about it, it is a bit strange that they are > still in business. > > Rodney. > > > > > On Apr 13, 2021, at 8:56 AM, Ian Clark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> > >> They misunderstood the PC. They thought it was just a toy and ignored > it. > > > > Not as I recall. Mainframe division understood it all too well. They > fought > > like hell in the early 80s to stop it happening. And to stop > microcomputers > > (the PC wasn't the first, or – as Bill Gates pointed out – the best) > > driving out the IT dept from banks and insurance companies, the main > milch > > cows. > > > > Others in the company saw the victory of micros as inevitable, and > wanted a > > slice of the action. So they set up Boca Raton behind a Chinese Wall. I > > think their battle cry was: No EBCDIC! > > > > The counter-arguments were quite persuasive (e.g. dispersal of the > > expertise concentrated in IT depts, so employees would get all these > > wonderful PCs but never learn how to use them) - but not persuasive > enough, > > and their shock-horror projections all came to pass. > > > > Including the ill effects for customers. Wall-to-wall Excel has not been > an > > unmitigated success. > > > > As for what happened next, I recommend Lou Gerstner's book: *Who Says > > Elephants Can't Dance?* Every old-school IBMer's darkest nightmare: a > > customer takeover. Lou even got IBM selling chips as a commodity. > > > > Well… you don't get rich selling clothes-pegs to gypsies. > > > >> On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 at 13:59, Don Guinn <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> They misunderstood the PC. They thought it was just a toy and ignored > it. > >> > >>> On Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 7:09 PM Björn Helgason <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>> When i was a product manager there I was told that when we wanted to > sell > >>> something the selling price should deliver at least 10 times more than > >>> cost. > >>> > >>> Less than that they were not interested. > >>> > >>> We are not in the fingers and toes business I was told. > >>> > >>> That was 30 years ago. > >>> > >>> They have been going downhill ever since I left. > >>> > >>> Þann mán., 12. apr. 2021, 18:25 'Rodney Nicholson' via Chat skrifaði < > >>> [email protected]>: > >>> > >>>> “ 13 layers of managers.” > >>>> > >>>> The explanation of their survival is, I believe, their huge profit > >>>> margins. > >>>> > >>>> I still recall when they got a contract to electronically handle the > >>>> Toronto Stock Exchange trading system where they charged $18 per > >>>> transaction. Their cost of course was just a few electrons per > >>> transaction. > >>>> > >>>> They were in effect a monopoly at the time. And monopolies always > >> waste > >>>> huge quantities of resources, accordingly reducing everone’s living > >>>> standards. > >>>> > >>>> Rodney. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> On Apr 12, 2021, at 10:15 AM, Björn Helgason <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> apl lives on even if ibm goes away. > >>>>> > >>>>> it is really amazing that ibm is still around. > >>>>> > >>>>> 13 layers of managers. > >>>>> > >>>>> Þann mán., 12. apr. 2021, 13:51 Raul Miller skrifaði < > >>>> [email protected] > >>>>>> : > >>>>> > >>>>>> That's disappointing. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Not surprising -- just disappointing. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Still, there's J, there's Dyalog APL, there's GNU APL, and there's k > >>>> and q. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Not to mention various hardware array concepts, such as greenarrays > >>> and > >>>>>> gpus. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> And, maybe, IBM will go back up at some point? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Who knows... > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Raul > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 5:05 AM Björn Helgason <[email protected]> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apl2-whats-new > >>>>>>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>> For information about J forums see > >>> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >>>>>> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> For information about J forums see > >>> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> For information about J forums see > >> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >>>> > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >>>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >>> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
