On Sat, 21 Apr 2001, Travis Bemann wrote:
> > The first two are not possible without the corruption of the government.
> > Why is government corruption more likely under a Libertarian regime, as
> > opposed to a Democratic or Republican regime?
>
> They can still happen under a Democratic or Republican regime, and
> have happened under Democratic and Republican regimes in the past.
> But this is more likely under a Libertarian regime because of the
> no-holds-barred stance towards business and industry.
So we have a choice. We can be:
* Fucked by capitalists.
* Fucked by government.
* Fucked by both.
* (Unless we destroy both at once.)
Doesn't seem very promising. I hope the premise is wrong.
> As for freedom to strike and such, I thought that striking is theft
> according to the views of at least some Libertarians and
> "anarcho"capitalists? It might not be your idea, but I wouldn't be
> surprised if the government viewed striking as such under a
> Libertarian regime.
Do you have any evidence to support this claim?
> Starting new corporations: easier said than done. Where do you get
> the capital? Where do you get the starting resources? And even if it
You earn it, or ask people who have money to lend some.
> is originally run for everyone's benefit, how long do you think it
> will be before people concerned with profit and screwing anyone and
> everyone who gets in the way of profit gain control (unless it is a
> collective, which in an otherwise capitalist society is technically a
> corporation, but is rather different and usually behaves differently
> from normal corporations because it is worker-owned and
> worker-managed)?
Why is starting a collective more difficult in a capitalist society?
> And do you really think that you can rely on charity?! It is not in
> the interests of the ruling class to provide charity for charity sake,
> for poor people are a good source of cheap labor; the only sort of
> corporate charity that I see today is stuff that is meant to result in
> tax reductions and stuff that is really in the interests of the
> corporation providing charity (such as giving schools a whole bunch of
> computers with Micro$oft Windows, so all the kiddies grow up using
> Micro$oft software).
So the commonplace charities - salvation army, etc - don't really give to
the poor? Where does all that money go, then?
> As for corporate-run cities, do you know what a company town is? It
> is a town that is run as a company, usually to supply workers for a
> particular factory; if you work at that factory you must live in that
> town. In many areas where there are a not many jobs, people often end
> up needing to work in a company town, because of necessity.
Yeah. The solution to that is to strike, or to quit and join a better
company. Both of those are possible and effective.
> Finally, back in the bad old days of the late 1800s, there were laws
> against murder and such, but that did not stop vigilantes and police
> and soldiers from killing strikers and such. Do Haymarket Square and
> the Pullman Strike mean anything to you.
Those were incidents where crimes were committed against strikers, and the
free market was interfered with.
> > I would like to live in a world where I can freely buy and sell things.
> > Maybe it's just a stupid fantasy.
>
> It is a stupid fantasy, for it is never going to happen without all
> the nasty baggage, as long as it is "anarcho"capitalism that you
> desire. On the other hand, you can shed all the nasty baggage by
When did I claim that I wanted "anarcho"capitalism? I meant what I wrote.
I would like to be free to buy and sell things. From that freedom you can
infer more freedoms I would like.
> switching what you want from "anarcho"capitalism to individualist
> anarchist (which is market-based but replaces capitalist property with
> possession/use rights and hierarchial management with collective
> worker management).
Would you be content pursuing the goals of collectivisation and equality
within the framework of a fair, just, and minimal civic order which
respected the rights to life, liberty, and property?
(I realize that such an order may not be attainable.)
--
"...you have mistaken your cowardice for common sense
and have found comfort in that, deceiving yourselves."
Mark Roberts | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
_______________________________________________
Chat mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
