What I would suggest is NOT to think of this as a total replacement of ALL J operation.Rather a SMALL subset of J in order to create interest in J for beginners.
You do not need to do very much in order to have material for a sizeable demo. 2009/2/24 Matthew Brand <[email protected]> > If all the code is displayed with symbols such as is being considered > but the entry method remains via ascii keyboard then it will make it > more difficult for new potential J users to get into J. > > They would have to look up on a card what combination of keys to press > to make the symbols appear. i.e. they would know they need to use the > "small filled circle" to do a composition, but they will not see a > "small filled circle" key anywhere on the keyboard. > > With ascii display they would know they need a @: for composition and > can glance at the keyboard and quickly enter it. > > Eventually they might memorise the pattern of "shift-2" "shift ;" (on > a Mac keyboard) to make the "small filled circle appear", but another > layer of language learning would be added. > > For existing J programmers the story would be different. We already > know that @: is composition and would automatically press the correct > key combination and would likely benefit from the prettier display. > > This problem could be solved by having an option, button or > key-combination to toggle the display between the two modes. So you > would by default see the new display character set, but if you hold, > say, ctrl-shift-g (or whatever!) then the display changes to show the > ascii. That way users would not have to "look up" how to enter each > symbol. > - Sýna tilvitnun - > > > > On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 2:14 AM, Tracy Harms <[email protected]> wrote: > > Don Watson initiated a conversation under the title "Teaching" on the > > General forum. I'd like to sketch out some further thoughts along > > these lines. > > > > Among the most important strengths of J are its notational nature and > > its extraordinarily simple, general syntax. The spelling of its > > primaries, while semantically admirable in ways that have been > > elaborated by others, leads to difficulties of recognition. Iverson's > > notation eliminates the syntactic patterns that are rooted in spoken > > language, which means that cues we commonly rely upon to identify > > patterns by sentence structure are missing. A good deal of concision > > results from that choice, but it means that many more elements must be > > interpreted on their own rather than within a larger pattern. > > > > The difficulty with two-character primaries is not that they are less > > concise. The extra length is irrelevant. The difficulty comes mostly > > from the fact that the primary symbols have been constructed from > > characters that evolved as minor modifiers; they are hard to read > > because their primary use relies on their being unobtrusive. Take a > > text, eliminate all the punctuation, and you have a text that does not > > look very different from the original. Even the space character is in > > this class. (Most ancient languages were written without spacing > > between words.) Punctuation characters are not well suited to be > > understood on their own, in large part because many look very much > > alike, and especially because they are mostly diminutive. > > > > Mind you, ASCII punctuation marks are what K.E. Iverson had to work > > with. He did a fine job with what he had, but his work here was > > distinctly bricolage, in contrast with his original decision to use > > symbols that extended his success at the chalkboard. > > > > I agree with Don (and several others) that J will benefit from > > improved display, and that this can be accomplished without departing > > from the established spelling of J primaries. At this moment I won't > > elaborate on particulars except to say that I envision @: being > > displayed as a small black circle (a.k.a. bullet) and @ as a small > > unfilled circle (as in the math notation that inspired it.) > > > > Let me go beyond the idea of replacing, (for display only, not typing > > or text editing,) J primaries with improved (but visually similar) > > symbols. What I think J naturally leans toward is having symbols stand > > in for defined names. Again, this can be done while having the text > > that is typed (and also copied, pasted, and saved) be standard text, > > but the display show something else. The defined name could be 'Aleph' > > and the display be the Hebrew character of that name. All the Unicode > > characters would be readily available in this manner. Other symbols > > could be supported, too. In fact, they can include hieroglyphs, in > > which case Donald McIntyre's phrase "from hieroglyphics to APL" will > > look more like a circle! > > > > Long variable names strain the symbolic structure in which J is > > strongest. Symbolic substitution for defined values will amplify one > > of J's greatest strengths. (Haskell's support for user-defined > > symbolic operators is worth noting, here.) I anticipate that once > > editors are built that support this sort of visual enhancement they > > will be favored in many circumstances, perhaps most. > > > > No change whatsoever would be needed from J Software for such a thing > > to occur; the language specifications would persist untouched. > > > > > > Tracy Harms > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > > -- > http://www.ixquick.com/ > > Ixquick Protects Your Privacy! > The only search engine that does not record your IP address. > > http://www.vivapalestina.org/ > - Sýna tilvitnun - > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > -- Björn Helgason, Verkfræðingur Fugl&Fiskur ehf, Þerneyjarsundi 23, Hraunborgum Po Box 127,801 Selfoss , t-póst: [email protected] gsm: +3546985532 Landslags og skrúðgarðagerð, gröfuþjónusta http://groups.google.com/group/J-Programming Tæknikunnátta höndlar hið flókna, sköpunargáfa er meistari einfaldleikans góður kennari getur stigið á tær án þess að glansinn fari af skónum /|_ .-----------------------------------. ,' .\ / | Með léttri lund verður | ,--' _,' | Dagurinn í dag | / / | Enn betri en gærdagurinn | ( -. | `-----------------------------------' | ) | (\_ _/) (`-. '--.) (='.'=) ♖♘♗♕♔♙ `. )----' (")_(") ☃☠ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
