hi, Oleg In short, Unicode support in Squeak has not been mature yet and Seaside is so hot that I want to keep some distance to watch and wait.
Before posting more, I would tell that I'm not a programmer and far from being an expert on object system design, be informed. In general, the Object System found in Smalltalk dialect implements are of strength but not ill free, and even Newspeak is over complicated when trying to fix the problems deeply rooting from Smalltalk. I have not tried JOO yet but I wish it'll not just adopt Smalltalk design as more and more other languages now doing. Alan Kay has said that there has been too much emphasis on objects while the real thing matters is just messages, 'it's just about messages,' as he put it. Whether base an object system on classes or not, later as does Self and former others, objects are nothing but collections or dictionaries, the fact that J is collection or as said array based language makes it almost already an object system at no cost. As Factor and Common Lisp has shown, methods need not to be stored in classes for instances to look them up, a class can be just a name, an entry in object name space database that contains definitions of messages related to various objects/classes. In doing this codes is less easier to get into mess and will introduce less inter-dependency that will cause system to break up by some modifying to existing codes. Factor has a google tech video ( more than 1 hour in length ) which has include some discussion on this. Youtube is banned here so I can't give you link. Regards, empt Oleg Kobchenko wrote: > > VisualWorks is nice, but it's UI starts looking dated. > Don't you find Squeak much more inspiring? > > In J there is Smalltalk-like tool called "cobrowse" > http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Addons/gui/util > Follow the SVN link to see how it is implemented--it's > just one script. > > One useful pattern in VisualWorks GUI is its extensive > use of binding data structures controls automatically. > Such as in form designer you can specify data source > and which elements are bound as data, labels etc. > > J controls like Plot or Grid require imperative > specification of data programmatically. > > Another inspiration Smalltalk offspring is web-based > framework Seaside, mentioned earlier by Boyko Bantchev > http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/chat/2007-March/000451.html > Employing "web continuations" it could realize the idea > of cloud J sessions to act an iPhone app for example. > > There is also a terrific programming environment, which > is a cross of Smalltalk and APL (in general sense) called > F-Script, which turns the whole Mac OS X into Squeak integrating > natively with its APIs. > > Contemporary Macs draw direct lineage from the original > Smalltalk by Alan Kay together with pioneering GUI tradition. > > From previous postings > http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/chat/2007-November/000627.html > http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/chat/2007-March/000424.html > > It was first introduced by Michael Nardell in > http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/chat/2006-October/000138.html > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- >> From: emptist <[email protected]> >> >> Hi, all >> >> I made a workspace (extending the original VisualWorks NonComercial one) >> to >> enable editing/translating Chinese J source to J script. It can be used >> to >> create new or open existing Chinese script in text area and than hit >> ctrl+j >> to translate, as well as typing in the input area and get translated >> line >> by line as shown in attached image. I'll wait until VisualWorks's 7.7 >> release to build a executable for those who are Chinese speaking and just >> have started learning J( free ). >> I really hope J will support Unicode words. >> >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p25503286/jws.jpg >> >> >> Alan K. Stebbens wrote: >> > >> > >> > I see some value in applying your ideas to create "wizards" that will >> > help practitioners of other computer languages to learn J. For >> > example, taking the most common idioms from other languages and >> > providing a semi-automatic translator, it may be possible to help >> > transition curious programmers of other languages into the World of J? >> > >> > As you did with Smalltalk, perhaps a good excuse for better learning J >> > might be to write a J program for converting idioms from popular >> > languages (eg: ruby, python, C) might be useful? >> > [.............] >> > etc. >> > >> > This might help convert entire methods into functionally equivalent J >> > code. >> > >> > Of course, J is sufficiently different that this won't work for large >> > bodies of code -- only small, relatively simple algorithms. But, it >> > might be interesting to see what such a translator spits out for >> > increasingly larger code fragments. >> > >> > Kind of a bottom-up translator. >> > >> > >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://www.nabble.com/finally%2C-I%27ve-made-tiny-Smalltalk-program-for-ChineseJ-tp25435672s24193p25503286.html >> Sent from the J Chat mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/finally%2C-I%27ve-made-tiny-Smalltalk-program-for-ChineseJ-tp25435672s24193p25507550.html Sent from the J Chat mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
