Thanks everyone! A few brief answers to some questions and comments.
*) Zach is not retiring from CB dev, he's just not able to dedicate the kind of time necessary to be a a "Project Point Man" (as Evan so eloquently put it). But I don't want to speak for him, this is just as I understand it. *) Thanks for mentioning the test suite, I knew I missed something. Yeah, improving tests are definitely necessary. I gathered from one of the recent PRs that the test suite isn't currently exactly reliable or finished or *something* like that, so we need to stabilize that. And I agree 100% that having a test suite helps tremendously with users who want to contribute. Knowing if you've broken something with a contribution really helps speed up everything about the developmental process. *) David, given my relative noobness in CB yet, I'm not *super* comfortable saying anything one way or another about merging your current forks other than "I'm sure this is something we can do." My biggest concern with PRs (other than them actually compiling and working) is that any API-level changes also have the appropriate documentation changes to go along with them (when relevant, of course, bugfixes/performance improvments obviously don't need docs). *) I also understand your thoughts about the SimpleBridge stuff. Having watched the Erlang web-server universe change drastically over the last 5 years, it's become obvious to me that something like SimpleBridge still helps to future-proof current apps and future apps. In 5 years, will cowboy still be the popular workhorse server, or will Elli gain marketshare and be the "new goto", or will something else come and sweep the Erlang world by storm? It's hard to say, I wouldn't have predicted Cowboy, nor would I have predicted the demise of Misultin. That's why SimpleBridge ultimately exists. Since CB has a configuration between mochiweb and cowboy to determine the backend, with SimpleBridge 2.0, it will simply allow the choice to be between all the others, and not have to worry if they'll support websockets. And when a new kid on the block rolls along in the future, we can trivially switch backends. That said, I think cowboy is great (the performance is the obvious draw), but Yaws is tried and true for over a decade, and that's sometimes the kind of reassurance companies need when choosing platforms. That is ultimately why I put so much importance on abstracting as much server-specific code away as possible. *) As to my long-term Nitrogen integration plans, it's less a case of "everything and the kitchen sink" and more a case of "possibly filling in a gap". My changes would very likely require much fewer changes to CB than to Nitrogen. It would not be a standard dependency, but rather a "plugin" in a sense. I definitely don't want to muddy up the waters with every little thing, I definitely understand that (don't want "PHP for Erlang, do we") but the main attraction of Nitrogen (afaic) is highly interactive writing web apps with 100% erlang code, and without resorting to writing strings with HTML or relying on javascript front-ends - that's why I see this potential unholy union being potentially awesome. I personally find Javascript to be a muddy morass of mutable nastiness, and I try to avoid it as much as possible (though I'm pragmatic enough to know you can't exactly *avoid* JS if you want to do web dev). I realize that Nitrogen can be a hair controversial, so it'll first be just an experiment to satisfy my curiosity, and if it proves to be awesome, we'll talk more about real integration, optional though it would be. *) Glad to hear everyone approves of dogfooding :) *) An update to the Roadmap to 1.0 would be fantastic, at least just to help get me (and other noobs wanting to contribute) up to speed on what needs to happen. *) In my early experiments here, I've already been blasted by some nearly cripplingly cryptic error messages (even by Erlang standards), so this is definitely something we'll need to continue working on. I can't imagine how hard it was to debug those kinds of errors prior to R15 when line numbers were introduced. Holy moly. *) And the compiler magic I've known about, though the details I've not even looked at yet. The fear is there, for sure. So anyway, I hope everyone has a great weekend, and those of you at Erlang Factory right now, enjoy! On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Samuel Rose <[email protected]> wrote: > Welcome Jesse! Look forward to collaborating with you. > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Nicholas Whittier <[email protected]> wrote: >> Awesome, I'm pumped for the traction. >> >> >> On Thursday, March 6, 2014 6:19:41 PM UTC-8, Jesse Gumm wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> 2) Rework ChicagoBoss.org to actually run on ChicagoBoss, including >>> live examples with the full code samples for each demo. Personally, I >>> tend to learn much faster from demos with code - and seeing the >>> underlying code for each component in the MVC for a page would be, I >>> think, highly illuminating, and provide excellent context for new and >>> veteran users alike. >>> >>> Providing byte-sized examples (see what I did there?) makes for easy >>> digestion of new material, so long as the code is short enough and >>> commented well enough to be reasoned through. CB's powerful backend >>> functionality can definitely provide some interesting examples, such >>> as (oh, I don't know) viewing emails sent to the a demo email like >>> "[email protected]" in realtime with comet/websockets, >>> demonstrating BossMQ. Miscellaneous examples like that would help >>> illuminate just how much can be done with so little code when using >>> CB/Erlang. They then serve as both a learning tool and as effective >>> propaganda. >>> >>> Being able to say "The homepage for our framework actually runs our >>> framework, and here are some cool things you can see it do" helps lend >>> it more credibility, in my opinion. >>> >> >> +1 for both dog-fooding and providing 'byte'-sized examples. I also think >> around the 1.0.0 mark we need to get the ball rolling on official or >> semi-official operations and dev tools. Making pages that explicitly and >> accurately detail getting up and running on PAAS/IAAS/VM helps add >> consistency and ease the entry barrier to a lot of users who probably know >> little about the intricacies of Erlang releases and their common distro PM >> versions. >> >> >> -- Nicholas (imperialwicket) >> >> >> >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Kai Janson <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > Welcome Jesse! I am glad you're onboard. Let's make CB version 1.0 and >>> > many >>> > more versions afterwards a reality! >>> > >>> > --Kai >>> > >>> > Sent from my tricorder >>> > >>> > On Mar 6, 2014, at 17:35, Evan Miller <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> > Hi all, >>> > >>> > There were vague intimations before, but I wanted to write and let >>> > everyone >>> > know that there's officially a new sheriff in town. Jesse Gumm >>> > (@choptastic >>> > on GitHub) has agreed to take over Zach's duties as Project Point Man. >>> > You >>> > might already know Jesse from his work as the maintainer of Nitrogen and >>> > SimpleBridge, the latter of which is used extensively in Chicago Boss. I >>> > got >>> > to know Jesse through SimpleBridge, and I think CB is lucky to have an >>> > experienced Erlang programmer and conscientious release manager like >>> > Jesse >>> > on board. >>> > >>> > Like Zach when he started, Jesse is relatively new to the CB code base, >>> > so >>> > try to cut him a little slack as he learns the ropes. In the coming days >>> > Jesse will be reviewing open pull requests and picking up where Zach >>> > left >>> > off in the push towards 1.0 -- but I'll let him tell you more in his own >>> > words. In the meantime, if you play league volleyball, you should >>> > definitely >>> > check out Jesse's business, BracketPal: >>> > >>> > http://bracketpal.com/ >>> > >>> > So -- welcome, Jesse! I'm definitely looking forward to watching the >>> > next >>> > chapter of CB unfold. >>> > >>> > Evan >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Evan Miller >>> > http://www.evanmiller.org/ >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> > Groups >>> > "ChicagoBoss" group. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> > an >>> > email to [email protected]. >>> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/chicagoboss. >>> > To view this discussion on the web visit >>> > >>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chicagoboss/CAP2VJ785TgDYLj47x31fyVBYC3uZ769US8ySF%3D_Urm6Yn%3DX2zA%40mail.gmail.com. >>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> > Groups >>> > "ChicagoBoss" group. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> > an >>> > email to [email protected]. >>> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/chicagoboss. >>> > To view this discussion on the web visit >>> > >>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chicagoboss/812E1B15-3FAE-4E16-82D2-F1C3A7B392FA%40gmail.com. >>> > >>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jesse Gumm >>> Owner, Sigma Star Systems >>> 414.940.4866 || sigma-star.com || @jessegumm >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "ChicagoBoss" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/chicagoboss. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chicagoboss/a08295be-9a7c-4b81-b0ad-c2d8eb0c8517%40googlegroups.com. >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "ChicagoBoss" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/chicagoboss. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chicagoboss/CA%2BH5g6rfr%2Bf-qikHNFEWwpiVN2X-g8H_oAUCMwa5c5iyYy-wyg%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Jesse Gumm Owner, Sigma Star Systems 414.940.4866 || sigma-star.com || @jessegumm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ChicagoBoss" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/chicagoboss. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chicagoboss/CAPTXyXfw-3uO-uNK%3DjQqzp8oSofORv1wEQ8cPE%3Db3-rX5k0SMQ%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
