For note, I love nitrogens style, though if you did n2o's style instead, which is basically a much more performant nitrogen, binaries and a few API changes for speed, would be even better. I hate working in JavaScript so staying in erlang is much better for me. On Mar 7, 2014 4:34 PM, "Jesse Gumm" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Thanks everyone! > > A few brief answers to some questions and comments. > > *) Zach is not retiring from CB dev, he's just not able to dedicate > the kind of time necessary to be a a "Project Point Man" (as Evan so > eloquently put it). But I don't want to speak for him, this is just as > I understand it. > > *) Thanks for mentioning the test suite, I knew I missed something. > Yeah, improving tests are definitely necessary. I gathered from one > of the recent PRs that the test suite isn't currently exactly reliable > or finished or *something* like that, so we need to stabilize that. > And I agree 100% that having a test suite helps tremendously with > users who want to contribute. Knowing if you've broken something with > a contribution really helps speed up everything about the > developmental process. > > *) David, given my relative noobness in CB yet, I'm not *super* > comfortable saying anything one way or another about merging your > current forks other than "I'm sure this is something we can do." My > biggest concern with PRs (other than them actually compiling and > working) is that any API-level changes also have the appropriate > documentation changes to go along with them (when relevant, of course, > bugfixes/performance improvments obviously don't need docs). > > *) I also understand your thoughts about the SimpleBridge stuff. > Having watched the Erlang web-server universe change drastically over > the last 5 years, it's become obvious to me that something like > SimpleBridge still helps to future-proof current apps and future apps. > In 5 years, will cowboy still be the popular workhorse server, or will > Elli gain marketshare and be the "new goto", or will something else > come and sweep the Erlang world by storm? It's hard to say, I wouldn't > have predicted Cowboy, nor would I have predicted the demise of > Misultin. That's why SimpleBridge ultimately exists. Since CB has a > configuration between mochiweb and cowboy to determine the backend, > with SimpleBridge 2.0, it will simply allow the choice to be between > all the others, and not have to worry if they'll support websockets. > And when a new kid on the block rolls along in the future, we can > trivially switch backends. That said, I think cowboy is great (the > performance is the obvious draw), but Yaws is tried and true for over > a decade, and that's sometimes the kind of reassurance companies need > when choosing platforms. That is ultimately why I put so much > importance on abstracting as much server-specific code away as > possible. > > *) As to my long-term Nitrogen integration plans, it's less a case of > "everything and the kitchen sink" and more a case of "possibly filling > in a gap". My changes would very likely require much fewer changes to > CB than to Nitrogen. It would not be a standard dependency, but rather > a "plugin" in a sense. I definitely don't want to muddy up the waters > with every little thing, I definitely understand that (don't want "PHP > for Erlang, do we") but the main attraction of Nitrogen (afaic) is > highly interactive writing web apps with 100% erlang code, and without > resorting to writing strings with HTML or relying on javascript > front-ends - that's why I see this potential unholy union being > potentially awesome. I personally find Javascript to be a muddy morass > of mutable nastiness, and I try to avoid it as much as possible > (though I'm pragmatic enough to know you can't exactly *avoid* JS if > you want to do web dev). I realize that Nitrogen can be a hair > controversial, so it'll first be just an experiment to satisfy my > curiosity, and if it proves to be awesome, we'll talk more about real > integration, optional though it would be. > > *) Glad to hear everyone approves of dogfooding :) > > *) An update to the Roadmap to 1.0 would be fantastic, at least just > to help get me (and other noobs wanting to contribute) up to speed on > what needs to happen. > > *) In my early experiments here, I've already been blasted by some > nearly cripplingly cryptic error messages (even by Erlang standards), > so this is definitely something we'll need to continue working on. I > can't imagine how hard it was to debug those kinds of errors prior to > R15 when line numbers were introduced. Holy moly. > > *) And the compiler magic I've known about, though the details I've > not even looked at yet. The fear is there, for sure. > > So anyway, I hope everyone has a great weekend, and those of you at > Erlang Factory right now, enjoy! > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Samuel Rose <[email protected]> wrote: > > Welcome Jesse! Look forward to collaborating with you. > > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Nicholas Whittier <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Awesome, I'm pumped for the traction. > >> > >> > >> On Thursday, March 6, 2014 6:19:41 PM UTC-8, Jesse Gumm wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> 2) Rework ChicagoBoss.org to actually run on ChicagoBoss, including > >>> live examples with the full code samples for each demo. Personally, I > >>> tend to learn much faster from demos with code - and seeing the > >>> underlying code for each component in the MVC for a page would be, I > >>> think, highly illuminating, and provide excellent context for new and > >>> veteran users alike. > >>> > >>> Providing byte-sized examples (see what I did there?) makes for easy > >>> digestion of new material, so long as the code is short enough and > >>> commented well enough to be reasoned through. CB's powerful backend > >>> functionality can definitely provide some interesting examples, such > >>> as (oh, I don't know) viewing emails sent to the a demo email like > >>> "[email protected]" in realtime with comet/websockets, > >>> demonstrating BossMQ. Miscellaneous examples like that would help > >>> illuminate just how much can be done with so little code when using > >>> CB/Erlang. They then serve as both a learning tool and as effective > >>> propaganda. > >>> > >>> Being able to say "The homepage for our framework actually runs our > >>> framework, and here are some cool things you can see it do" helps lend > >>> it more credibility, in my opinion. > >>> > >> > >> +1 for both dog-fooding and providing 'byte'-sized examples. I also > think > >> around the 1.0.0 mark we need to get the ball rolling on official or > >> semi-official operations and dev tools. Making pages that explicitly and > >> accurately detail getting up and running on PAAS/IAAS/VM helps add > >> consistency and ease the entry barrier to a lot of users who probably > know > >> little about the intricacies of Erlang releases and their common distro > PM > >> versions. > >> > >> > >> -- Nicholas (imperialwicket) > >> > >> > >> > >>> > >>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Kai Janson <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > Welcome Jesse! I am glad you're onboard. Let's make CB version 1.0 > and > >>> > many > >>> > more versions afterwards a reality! > >>> > > >>> > --Kai > >>> > > >>> > Sent from my tricorder > >>> > > >>> > On Mar 6, 2014, at 17:35, Evan Miller <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > > >>> > Hi all, > >>> > > >>> > There were vague intimations before, but I wanted to write and let > >>> > everyone > >>> > know that there's officially a new sheriff in town. Jesse Gumm > >>> > (@choptastic > >>> > on GitHub) has agreed to take over Zach's duties as Project Point > Man. > >>> > You > >>> > might already know Jesse from his work as the maintainer of Nitrogen > and > >>> > SimpleBridge, the latter of which is used extensively in Chicago > Boss. I > >>> > got > >>> > to know Jesse through SimpleBridge, and I think CB is lucky to have > an > >>> > experienced Erlang programmer and conscientious release manager like > >>> > Jesse > >>> > on board. > >>> > > >>> > Like Zach when he started, Jesse is relatively new to the CB code > base, > >>> > so > >>> > try to cut him a little slack as he learns the ropes. In the coming > days > >>> > Jesse will be reviewing open pull requests and picking up where Zach > >>> > left > >>> > off in the push towards 1.0 -- but I'll let him tell you more in his > own > >>> > words. In the meantime, if you play league volleyball, you should > >>> > definitely > >>> > check out Jesse's business, BracketPal: > >>> > > >>> > http://bracketpal.com/ > >>> > > >>> > So -- welcome, Jesse! I'm definitely looking forward to watching the > >>> > next > >>> > chapter of CB unfold. > >>> > > >>> > Evan > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > Evan Miller > >>> > http://www.evanmiller.org/ > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>> > Groups > >>> > "ChicagoBoss" group. > >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send > >>> > an > >>> > email to [email protected]. > >>> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/chicagoboss. > >>> > To view this discussion on the web visit > >>> > > >>> > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chicagoboss/CAP2VJ785TgDYLj47x31fyVBYC3uZ769US8ySF%3D_Urm6Yn%3DX2zA%40mail.gmail.com > . > >>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>> > Groups > >>> > "ChicagoBoss" group. > >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send > >>> > an > >>> > email to [email protected]. > >>> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/chicagoboss. > >>> > To view this discussion on the web visit > >>> > > >>> > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chicagoboss/812E1B15-3FAE-4E16-82D2-F1C3A7B392FA%40gmail.com > . > >>> > > >>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Jesse Gumm > >>> Owner, Sigma Star Systems > >>> 414.940.4866 || sigma-star.com || @jessegumm > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "ChicagoBoss" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an > >> email to [email protected]. > >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/chicagoboss. > >> To view this discussion on the web visit > >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chicagoboss/a08295be-9a7c-4b81-b0ad-c2d8eb0c8517%40googlegroups.com > . > >> > >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "ChicagoBoss" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to [email protected]. > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/chicagoboss. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chicagoboss/CA%2BH5g6rfr%2Bf-qikHNFEWwpiVN2X-g8H_oAUCMwa5c5iyYy-wyg%40mail.gmail.com > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Jesse Gumm > Owner, Sigma Star Systems > 414.940.4866 || sigma-star.com || @jessegumm > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "ChicagoBoss" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/chicagoboss. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chicagoboss/CAPTXyXfw-3uO-uNK%3DjQqzp8oSofORv1wEQ8cPE%3Db3-rX5k0SMQ%40mail.gmail.com > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ChicagoBoss" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/chicagoboss. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chicagoboss/CAJhqboHND08NTZJR%3DtkQEZOYT2eD2zLt%2B-TTrf-c5POmtsydqQ%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
