The beat goes on. Kennedy as was true with his brothers had indiscretions. He was born to privilege as was Winston. Winston's drinking in no way impeded his work. Kennedy as he grew older became more effective. I really see no real political comparisons of WSC and Teddy Kennedy. Both resembled each other as privileged patricians.
Richard C. Geschke > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 06:44:20 +0000 > Subject: [ChurchillChat] Re: WSC and EMK > > > I should hardly think that Chappaquidick was just an innuendo! > Sent on the Now Network? from my Sprint® BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > > Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 06:36:35 > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: [ChurchillChat] Re: WSC and EMK > > > I do suppose that Teddy Kennedy had an occasional nip, but I don't recall > that ever having an effect on him in his work so I would regard that as > irrelevant. Booze does not seem to have been a problem for him. I know > there are innuendos, but I prefer to stick to hard facts. > > According to his own accounts, WSC could imbibe heroic quantities of the > sauce at dinner and then go on to work magnificently until all hours of the > morning. One can be pardoned for a bit of skepticism. I do believe he may > have been just a tad embroidering the actuality. > > It's interesting in a way that all this comes up. In more enlightened times, > as long as there were no adverse public effects, issues like this were not > considered anyones' business. > > Jonathan Hayes > -------------- Original message from "[email protected]" <[email protected]>: > -------------- > > > I do not find a comparison beyond the facts of their alcoholism and that they > were men of their houses. > In his personal life, Churchill was energetic, heroic and, although > eccentric, above reproach . Kennedy had his position given to him and lived > a life that was thoroughly disgusting. Churchill's alcoholism was just the > way he worked. Kennedy followed it to debauchery. > It is true that they both recovered from early mistakes, but Churchill's > were, if they were mistakes at all, ones of judgment in the governmental > arena. Kennedy's mistakes were of personal morality and criminal misconduct. > While we remember Mary Jo, do not forget the student he paid to take a test > for him. > Kennedy apparently had a talent of putting together coalitions to pass > particular bills. He apparently was liked and, in a way, respected by other > senators. He led by fitting the pieces together to complete the puzzle. > Churchill, by contrast, from my reading, was not as well liked personally, > and did not excel in putting together coalitions, but in leading by the > strength of his personality and the compelling nature of his policies. When > men saw Churchill, they just had to follow. > While both traveled impressive legislative careers, there paths were very > dissimilar. > Jim Gallen > > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: "Stan A. Orchard" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: [ChurchillChat] Re: WSC and EMK > Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 12:58:00 -0700 > > > Churchill and Kennedy were both political survivors who forged long and > highly successful careers with the spectre of past, and potentially career > destroying, early mistakes/misdeeds hanging over their heads. With one or > two exceptions they maintained friendly personal relationships with fellow > politicians of all persuasions to the benefit of their political influence > and legislative initiatives. Both had a charismatic presence, in part, > coloured by ancestry and family history and sustained by their own powerful > personalities, personal convictions and productivity. Both affected people > on a profound personal and emotional level, hence both were mourned and paid > tribute to upon their deaths by a wide range of influential political friends > and foes. It is hard for me to imagine Churchill thriving in the American > political system or for Kennedy to have reached such heights in British > politics - but both reached and sustained high levels of success and impact > within their respective systems. > > Grave dancing on this discussion list is rather unseemly and isn't very > Churchillian. > > Stan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Geoff Zimmerman > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 11:54 AM > Subject: [ChurchillChat] Re: WSC and EMK > > > Yes. Forgetting about politics, Kennedy throughout his life was a man of low > character. At Chappaquiddick he behaved as a coward. I don't see any basis > for comparing him to Churchill. > > Geoff Zimmerman > [email protected] > > > > > > > From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 11:17:06 AM > Subject: [ChurchillChat] Re: WSC and EMK > > > I will not bring politics into the discussion. But I refuse to believe that > WSC would ever have acted as despicably as the late Senator Kennedy did at > Chappaquiddick. Had he not been a Kennedy in Massachusetts, he would have > spent a goodly number of years in the slammer. > > The media has been eager to sweep Mary Jo Kopechne under the rug. She > should not be forgotten. > > Jonathan Hayes > -------------- Original message from "Joe Hern" <[email protected]>: > -------------- > > > > > > A new thread: Edward Moore Kennedy and Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill > > > > As a Churchillian, and a man from Massachusetts who proudly wears a PT 109 > > tie clasp, I can't help but see parallels between my late senator for most > > of my life and WSC. > > > > The scenes at the JFK Library in Boston of ordinary folk waiting in line > > over three hours to pass the bier are reminiscent of 1965. Due to popular > > demand, viewing was extended past the scheduled time; another parallel. > > > > I hear that the British and the Irish P.M.s are to attend Senator Kennedy's > > rites tomorrow, as are the current U.S. president (whose election owes a > > great deal to the endorsements of Senator Kennedy and his niece Caroline) > > and three out of four living ex-presidents. > > > > I was privileged to witness yesterday the cortege drive through the streets > > of Boston - the Kennedy stronghold - and to sail today close to the John F. > > Kennedy Library (coming about before the posted Coast Guard pickets could > > challenge us!). > > > > The most striking parallel is that EMK was the master of, and a great lover > > of, the U.S. Senate just as WSC was the master of the House of Commons. > > Today's New York Times reports an example of this: that Senator Kennedy > > arranged for Robert Caro, the LBJ biographer, to address senators about the > > traditions of the Senate. But for the equally esteemed Senator Byrd, > > Senator Kennedy would be known as the father of the Senate. > > > > I invite commentary not on Senator Kennedy's politics but on his role as a > > parliamentarian, a lover of his legislative house and his obsequies, vis a > > vis those characteristics in Winston Churchill. > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > TN Med Malpractice Lawyer > Surgical Error, Doctor Negligence. Call Today for a Free Consultation! > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009 --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ChurchillChat" group. 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