Yowza! Come on, people, give Kevin a break! I think most are missing
the point he tried to make in the first place. He wasn't necessarily
calling Jennifer a criminal and coming down on her for it, he simply was
saying that it might not be wise to pirate training materials and then
mention it on a mailing list the includes a *large* number of people
that create or contribute to training materials!
That just makes sense! Kevin was attempting to make Jennifer more
aware of the list environment, that's all.
So, everyone, back to your corners and unruffle your feathers! :-)
>>> "hal9001" 7/9/01 11:05:08 AM >>>
Oh dear, not YOU, particularly but there are people in this world that
Marx
described as "useful fools", these people thus unwittingly allow
despots etc
get into positions of power and privilege.
You might consider your position in the great order of things and you
might
consider say Mr Gates, his position and how he got there!
However! It was rather good of you Kevin to to consider giving the
matter a
rest as I realise what a bunch of crepuscular low life's we must all
seem to
you and your lofty but quite laudable ideals. You be a great help in
an
ideal world...but that's just the point.....an deal world.
Jennifer I gather wearing plenty of Garlic and carrying a cross is a
great
help, on the other hand that could be something to do with bats, they
come
out in the dark don't they.
GIVE IT UP! FINISH IT! Pleeeeeeeease!
Karl
Reichmarshall of my little abode! Or so my wife says.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Wigle"
To: "hal9001" ;
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: RouterSim 3.0 [7:11342]
> I was hoping to just let it die but the "Seig Heil" is just a little
over
> the top.
>
> What is so difficult to understand about buying a single copy of any
piece
> of software and then burning copies? (and then telling the world
about it)
>
> The scenario I painted doesn't require much imagination.
>
> And I'm not trying to run anybody off. But what I said should
"distract"
> anybody that does this openly.
>
> Kevin Wigle
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "hal9001"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 11:27 AM
> Subject: Re: RouterSim 3.0 [7:11342]
>
>
> > Yes Messers - Sue, Grabbit and Runne.
> >
> > I find it amazing that there are those who slavishly chase around
and
> brown
> > nose themselves with big business and the powerful who are quite
capable
> of
> > protecting themselves. Sad. Now every one say after me:
> > "Seig Heil".
> >
> > K
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jennifer Cribbs"
> > To:
> > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 4:12 PM
> > Subject: Re: RouterSim 3.0 [7:11342]
> >
> >
> > > I have worked so hard studying and have loved all the wonderful
> > > contributions from the people that make this site
> > > special. But I am not a thief Phil...I really am not. We bought
the
> > > disk..We didn't steal it. We all paid money that we
> > > had saved so we could study and pass our tests. We had a
wonderful
> > > instructor that cared about us and helped us.
> > > They had special group studies on varied topics that people
could
> > > participate in if they chose. We had dinners
> > > together. We were all involved together on a common mission of
getting
> > > through our classes and passing our first cert
> > > together. I was not trying to implicate anything or anybody.
> > Academically,
> > > it was a great environment and too bad more
> > > aren't the same and are conductive to learning.
> > >
> > > Since those times are past, this group, without it being a
formal
> > classroom
> > > is the closest thing I have to college. And
> > > right now, I am just discouraged...
> > >
> > > It is greatly distracting me from what my goals are. I do not
mind a
> > debate
> > > but over pertinent issues that matter in the
> > > long run from a 'cert viewpoint' but this is not one of those
issues,
> but
> > it
> > > is, like I said, very distracting for me from a
> > > personal standpoint regarding my studying. I have never even
read one
> of
> > > Howards, Priscilla's or Tom's books, but I
> > > bet they are good. Of course, I am only assuming that based on
the
> > answers
> > > I have seen posted by them on this site
> > > and the 'free' study material compiled by them posted on
> > > certificationzone.com that is available on a monthly basis that
I
> > > have read. Those people are why I stayed, because you can learn
from
> > them.
> > > But I have not stolen anything from
> > > them Phil as was implied by Wigle.
> > >
> > > And you are right..this is ridiculous....I enjoy this site too
much
for
> > one
> > > Wigle to run me off.
> > > I guess I will just wait for the dark blue sedan to pull up with
all
the
> > > haggling lawyers ....
> > >
> > > Jenn
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 7/9/2001 9:30:48 AM, "Circusnuts" wrote:
> > >
> > > >What !!!
> > > >
> > > >Now this is ridiculous !!!! Jennifer- unless you're getting
hate
mail
> > the
> > > >rest us are not seeing, no one else on this list cares.
> > > >
> > > >I enjoy you posts & am surprised Kevin has carried things this
far...
> > > >Phil
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Jennifer Cribbs"
> > > >To:
> > > >Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 10:18 AM
> > > >Subject: Re: RouterSim 3.0 [7:11342]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Rational or otherwise, an already convicted thief or not, I
have
> > withdrawn
> > > >> my subscription from groupstudy..
> > > >>
> > > >> 7/9/2001 8:42:33 AM, "Kevin Wigle" wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> >Jennifer,
> > > >> >
> > > >> >I'm not condemning you. I've read your posts and I thought
you a
> > > >rational
> > > >> >person.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >But just read this............
> > > >> >
> > > >> >"We couldn't afford it otherwise. None of us. We all copied
it
to
> > > >> >use from our school burner. It was registered in
> > > >> >a co-instructors name. It was all about wanting to pass and
> learning
> > and
> > > >> >him helping us. Not cheating or pirating.
> > > >> >Right or wrong, that's what we did. "
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Can't get much closer to a confession than that. "We"
normally
> > includes
> > > >the
> > > >> >person talking but I'll let the lawyers haggle that one.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Anyway, think of all the people on this list that make this
list
> such
> > a
> > > >> >great place for learning.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Howard Berkowitz, Author and Instructor
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Tom Lisa, Author and Instructor
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Priscilla Oppenheimer, Author and Instructor
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Not to mention the many CCIE's on the list.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >They give their time freely to the list which is as good as
it
gets.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >On the other hand, some people still want to steal from them
and
> > others.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >I just can't seem to reconcile how anybody can steal their
work
and
> > then
> > > >> >post to a mailing list where they contribute freely. The
> Transcenders
> > > >are
> > > >> >not their work but the pricipal is the same.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Like I said, I have used "evaluation" software so I'm not
saying
I'm
> > > >above
> > > >> >the same issues, but I have bought legal copies of anything
I
found
> to
> > be
> > > >> >useful. Also, I don't post to a publc place that may
unwittingly
> cast
> > > >> >suspicion on other people.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >And just one more thing, if you continue to post to a public
email
> > list
> > > >or
> > > >> >participate in any public endeavor - then you should be
prepared
to
> > have
> > > >> >people question your actions and for you to defend them.
Such
> debates
> > > >> >normally are not meant to destroy the other person but to
gain
more
> > > >insight
> > > >> >or impart advice/knowledge.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Take this as you will.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Kevin Wigle
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >----- Original Message -----
> > > >> >From: "Jennifer Cribbs"
> > > >> >To:
> > > >> >Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 12:45 AM
> > > >> >Subject: Re: RouterSim 3.0 [7:11342]
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> I am not used to being a defender of my actions Kevin. I
am
> > stopping
> > > >> >this.
> > > >> >> We don't feel the same and I do not want
> > > >> >> to be placed in the positon of having to defend a point in
my
> > personal
> > > >> >> history that you disagree with me about. Maybe I
> > > >> >> shouldn't have said anything, but I am not used to keeping
secrets
> > > >either.
> > > >> >I
> > > >> >> am an honest person and it is pointless to
> > > >> >> continue this. I should not have even replied to your
baited
> > question.
> > > >> >> After accusations, answers are pointless, for
> > > >> >> accusations only breed a heated response, and I am not
going to
> get
> > > >caught
> > > >> >> up in that.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> 7/8/2001 11:43:43 PM, Jennifer Cribbs wrote:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> >Kevin,
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >I am not saying I am guilty of anything...You are! When
you
are
> in
> > a
> > > >> >> semester of school virtually inexperienced in the
> > > >> >> >computer realm, things happen. I am merely replying to a
mail
> that
> > > >was
> > > >> >> posted here.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >You think it is a soft piracy ring??...and it will be my
fault
> they
> > > >get
> > > >> >> caught??...I don't think so Kevin. You are the one
> > > >> >> >who is wrong. I was the student on a learning quest. And
if I
> was
> > > >wrong
> > > >> >> and this is the worst thing I ever do, then I
> > > >> >> >won't worry or lose sleep over it.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >There are so few indescretions in my life that this one
just
> kinda
> > > >sticks
> > > >> >> out and came to mind...Sorry for the stress my
> > > >> >> >post caused you.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >Jennifer
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >7/8/2001 8:41:46 PM, "Kevin Wigle" wrote:
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >>In today's litigious world, I'm surprised that anyone
would go
> > onto a
> > > >> >> >>respected mailing list and publicly admit that they're
guilty
of
> > > >> >software
> > > >> >> >>piracy and provide enough details to be tracked down.
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >>Then further implicate the school by using their
equipment and
> > > >further
> > > >> >> >>implicate a "co-instructor" at the school.
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >>I'm sure it wouldn't take much sleuthing to find the
school,
the
> > > >> >> >>co-instructor's name and the entire "ring".
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >>I'm not saying I'm lily white but I don't advertise my
> > indiscretions
> > > >to
> > > >> >the
> > > >> >> >>world. I'm sure a company like Cisco does not want it to
be
> known
> > > >that
> > > >> >a
> > > >> >> >>school allowed (either explicitly or through negligence)
> software
> > > >piracy
> > > >> >> had
> > > >> >> >>anything to do with the academy.
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >>At the end of the day it is theft, we can all debate the
> problems
> > of
> > > >> >> >>obtaining affordable training/schooling, but at the end
of the
> > > >debate -
> > > >> >it
> > > >> >> >>is theft. The school could be sued, the academy could
be
> > withdrawn,
> > > >the
> > > >> >> >>co-instructor could lose his job and legal expenses could
make
> > > >whatever
> > > >> >> >>profit you thought you made unavailable for a long time.
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >>Why would you want to tell us about it?
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >>Kevin Wigle
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >>----- Original Message -----
> > > >> >> >>From: "Jennifer Cribbs"
> > > >> >> >>To:
> > > >> >> >>Sent: Sunday, 08 July, 2001 17:42
> > > >> >> >>Subject: Re: RouterSim 3.0 [7:11342]
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >>> Personally, I think it's good to help people and there
is a
> > > >difference
> > > >> >> >>being
> > > >> >> >>> profiting from someones else's work and
> > > >> >> >>> helping people trying to learn. When I was in school,
all
the
> > > >> >students
> > > >> >> >>went
> > > >> >> >>> in together and bought transcender for the
> > > >> >> >>> ccna. We couldn't afford it otherwise. None of us.
We all
> > copied
> > > >it
> > > >> >to
> > > >> >> >>> use from our school burner. It was registered in
> > > >> >> >>> a co-instructors name. It was all about wanting to
pass and
> > > >learning
> > > >> >and
> > > >> >> >>> him helping us. Not cheating or pirating.
> > > >> >> >>> Right or wrong, that's what we did. And I will also
add
that
> > > >> >> >>transcender's
> > > >> >> >>> high points are the excellent explanations at
> > > >> >> >>> the end of each question. The questions themselves
were not
> > geared
> > > >in
> > > >> >a
> > > >> >> >>way
> > > >> >> >>> however to prepare a student for what
> > > >> >> >>> was coming and the structure of what the real questions
were
> > about.
> > > >> >If
> > > >> >> >>you
> > > >> >> >>> didn't study the explanations, you might fall
> > > >> >> >>> into that trap of memorizing and not learning.
> > > >> >> >>>
> > > >> >> >>> People will probably disagree with me also...
> > > >> >> >>>
> > > >> >> >>> Jennifer Cribbs.
> > > >> >> >>> [been there, done that]
> > > >> >> >>>
> > > >> >> >>> 7/8/2001 2:46:10 PM, "PHIMHONGKONG" wrote:
> > > >> >> >>>
> > > >> >> >>> >contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] i have router sim 2.1
and
> switch
> > > >sim +
> > > >> >> >>ccno
> > > >> >> >>> >sim
> > > >> >> >>> >i can burn you one
> > > >> >> >>> >:-d
> > > >> >> >>> >i dont sell pirate software . i am helping you to
study :-)
> > > >> >> >>> >
> > > >> >> >>> >poeple please dont say i am pirater
> > > >> >> >>> >
> > > >> >> >>> > wrote in message
> > > >> >> >>> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >> >> >>> >> Hi to all,
> > > >> >> >>> >> For anybody who own a RouterSim 3.0. I am planning
to
> invest
> > > >> >$250.00
> > > >> >> >>> >buying
> > > >> >> >>> >> RouterSim 3.0 router simulator to preopare for my
CCNA
> > > >> >certification.
> > > >> >> >>Can
> > > >> >> >>> >I
> > > >> >> >>> >> burn a copy of this as my back-up? Can I
simultaneously
> > install
> > > >> >this
> > > >> >> to
> > > >> >> >>> >two
> > > >> >> >>> >> hard drives (i.e, to a desk top and to a lap top)?
> > > >> >> >>> >> Please educate me.
> > > >> >> >>> >>
> > > >> >> >>> >> Thanks,
> > > >> >> >>> >> Val
> > > >> >> >>> Have a great day!!
> > > >> >> >>> Jennifer
> > > >> >> >Have a great day!!
> > > >> >> >Jennifer
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Have a great day!!
> > > >> >> Jennifer
> > > >> Have a great day!!
> > > >> Jennifer
> > > Have a great day!!
> > > Jennifer
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